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D&D 5E Sell Out: Hasbro and the Soul of D&D

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Zardnaar

Legend
So funny, this thread had me thinking of a conversation with a friend years ago. Discussing home ownership (he was just moving out to live with his GF) I had to break down how unattainable it was going to be for him as he had never looked at the numbers.

No way I could buy into a home today, even 12 years ago, vastly different environment.

America is regarded as cheap housing for us unless you're in California or NYC.

Younger ones thinking of leaving to Australia/UK/USA.
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Gen X is more about telling everyone to F off and up yours to "the man".

Until you but a house/have kids etc.
Oh I have a house and a kid and I still tell everyone to F off and up yours to the man! :)

In my opinion, the identity of "the man" has changed. The people who are dictating orthodoxy these days don't think of themselves as dictating orthodoxy.
 


MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I’m not sure where in my post people are getting the idea that I’m trying to lay blame on anyone in particular. It’s a crappy situation all around and nowhere did I say it was anyone’s fault. (Ok, in a later post I said it was Boomers’ fault, though that was a bit of an oversimplification.)
Don't worry too much, my post is an oversimplification too. This stuff is too complicated for everybody.
 

TBH, my eyes kind of glazed over after the first few paragraphs, sorry.

But ... I don't buy the premise. The band you liked is still the same band even after they "Sold out and became popular". D&D is still just a goofy game I play to socialize and have a few laughs.

Growing popularity just means a wider audience, I don't see why it hurts. The games I run won't really change, with a larger audience there will be plenty of room for niches.
Exactly! Selling out is a term used by people who can't, being jealous of those who can. If you really feel that your art is greater than any monetary worth, you'd never actually sell it in the first place. This was all the rage among the young and immature (including myself), but eventually we grow up and realize that RENT is a moneymaking franchise about fighting against moneymaking franchises.

I actually expected something useful and interesting here @Snarf Zagyg. There was a lot of concern about D&D transitioning from TSR to WotC, and then Hasbro buying out WotC. I can understand some concern about this, not that I expect anything to change that much. A barely cohesive rant about "selling out" was really, really disappointing.
 


Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
The only thing we as consumers ever "owned" is our characters and how they interacted with a campaign along with whatever house rules we have.

Whether any of the half cooked ideas I throw at my players as a DM is ever considered "art" or not is in the eye of the beholder.
 


ardoughter

Hero
Supporter
The only thing we as consumers ever "owned" is our characters and how they interacted with a campaign along with whatever house rules we have.

Whether any of the half cooked ideas I throw at my players as a DM is ever considered "art" or not is in the eye of the beholder.
The characters, the house rules and their intersection with play is, really the only thing that matters at the end of the day and does not depend on some corporate vision.

I have always somewhat amazed about angst about canon and changes to lore when the only canon and lore that matters is what the DM and players have interacted with.

The corporate product is corporate product, buy it if you deem it useful and leave it on the shelf if not all the stuff you have bought is still yours.
 


Gorg

Explorer
Tbh, I'm more worried about it's continued rising prominence- and it being closely associated with a corporate giant- leaving it vulnerable to pressure from the cancel types. We already went through that once in the 80's with that moral panic... (anyone remember Jack Chick?) And in their zeal to produce a product that conforms to all modern orthodoxy (and reduces their exposure to lawsuits, or organized attacks) we'll get a "game" so lacking in substance, lore, genre, or any identity (other than pandering to whichever pressure group is screaming loudest), that it's unrecognizable as D&D.

Not to mention not much fun to play..

Now that I think about it, my answer could have fit just as well in the "If D&D were invented today, what would it look like" thread.
 

ardoughter

Hero
Supporter
Tbh, I'm more worried about it's continued rising prominence- and it being closely associated with a corporate giant- leaving it vulnerable to pressure from the cancel types. We already went through that once in the 80's with that moral panic... (anyone remember Jack Chick?) And in their zeal to produce a product that conforms to all modern orthodoxy (and reduces their exposure to lawsuits, or organized attacks) we'll get a "game" so lacking in substance, lore, genre, or any identity (other than pandering to whichever pressure group is screaming loudest), that it's unrecognizable as D&D.

Not to mention not much fun to play..

Now that I think about it, my answer could have fit just as well in the "If D&D were invented today, what would it look like" thread.
Even if that happens, so what? All the old stuff is still there. You have the OGL the retro clones and so on.
 



prabe

Aspiring Lurker (He/Him)
And this stuff is self-correcting in the long run. Where is BADD? Where is Chick? Exactly, and D&D is still around.
Jack Chick is dead, I think. It's been a while since I've had one foisted onto me, but his pamphlets are still available.
 

pming

Legend
Hiya!

Well, honestly, Rodger from the Lethal Weapon movie series sums up my stance on this, a stance that I've basically had since the end of 2e:

"I'm getting too old for this [s...]"

D&D could go completely boobs skyward and it might get a "Oh? That's too bad...huh." out of me. I have FAAAR too much RPG stuff for all manner of D&D and other RPGs that I'll be looooong dead before I can even really explore a quarter of it.

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Jack Chick is dead, I think. It's been a while since I've had one foisted onto me, but his pamphlets are still available.
That was my point, harsh critics die, grow old, get bored, (mature?), or have a limited attention span to begin with. A given edition of D&D either does well or not, should it go wrong, the worst that could happen is it going dormant until a future point in time when it is revived and sold again.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Wtf is happening?

read every post and feel like I am on space ghost coast to coast

FoolhardyLikableGalah.webp
 

practicalm

Explorer
Read the rant a couple of times and I still don't see the point.
Once you buy the books you can do whatever you want.

The game will change. New product may or may not get released. You are not obligated to buy anything you don't want to nor is anyone going to come and take the stuff you bought from you.

There are no game police no matter how many people try to set themselves up as saying this right here is D&D and nothing else is.

Hey if people can make a buck playing the game and filming themselves, more power to them. I find it tedious to watch but their success or failure has nothing on what I do.

As a player, I interview the gamemaster to make sure I will enjoy the game and follow their guidelines
As a gamemaster, I check that the players are willing to follow my guidelines to build a story/game.

Sure it's easier if things are standardized but if you want easy go play a board game with specific rules for everything. Or a CRPG where the designer decided what you are allowed to do in the game.

Every table is a group of artists and the art is usually just for them.
Everything else doesn't matter.
 

Hussar

Legend
Tbh, I'm more worried about it's continued rising prominence- and it being closely associated with a corporate giant- leaving it vulnerable to pressure from the cancel types. We already went through that once in the 80's with that moral panic... (anyone remember Jack Chick?) And in their zeal to produce a product that conforms to all modern orthodoxy (and reduces their exposure to lawsuits, or organized attacks) we'll get a "game" so lacking in substance, lore, genre, or any identity (other than pandering to whichever pressure group is screaming loudest), that it's unrecognizable as D&D.

Not to mention not much fun to play..

Now that I think about it, my answer could have fit just as well in the "If D&D were invented today, what would it look like" thread.
Huh. 2e was considered one of the most successful editions - certainly one of the longest lived ones, which gave us pretty much all the things we consider classic D&D today - the settings, the lore, (Oh, gawds, the stacks and stacks of lore) the evolution from tabletop wargame to hobby.

The only thing that changed in 2e is they got rid of demons. For a couple of years. Then they brought them back.

Yeah, not seeing what you're seeing here.
 

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