Selling loot for half price - why?

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think it is possible to sell magic items for their full value. But to do this, the PCs need to find their own customer - someone who already wants the precise magic item they have.

But that requires time, a significant amount of legwork - let's hope someone in the group has a high enough rank in Gather Information - and a community where it is possible to find such people at all.

And if they are doing that, they might piss off the "regular" magic items dealer, who will likely resent any encroachment into their territory. If the setting uses medieval conventions, it is possible that such merchants even have a legal monopoly in the city for this trade. And even if not, they will still be leery of outsiders trying to break into their business.

High-level characters with good magical transportation (i.e. teleport without error can visit several cities in rapid succession and try to find someone who will purchase their items at close to market value. But even then the whole process might take several days. The only alternative is to deal with the professional merchants - and accept that they are going to take a large cut.

This is exactly the reasoning that I use. I've allowed PC's in my game to use Gather Info and Diplomacy to try and get full price for items. Based on some ideas that came up in the "What Should a Market for Magic Items Look Like?" thread, I'm considering creating a handful of magical auction houses that do auctions on a quarterly basis - the PC's could try to hold onto their items until an auction and get closer to full price (minus 10% processing fee).

I'm thinking that this setup could create some pretty cool gaming opportunities.

 

[LcKedovan]

I just use opposing appraisal rolls and modify the base price based on that and a whim based on location, availability, and campaign balance. I'm the DM so I can do what I want



-W.

 

[Mark Hope]

There is only a miniscule chance that anyone who wants the loot, which is often hyper-specific, and has the money to buy it is right there when the adventurers limp back to town. The person buying the loot is a middle-man, and the middle-man can't tie up 100 percent of the resale value in an item unless he thinks he can turn it around instantaneously with no effort.

If he can't turn it around instantaneously with no effort, he needs to buy it at a substantial discount to justify the amount of time his money will be tied up and the amount of effort he must make to find a buyer.

Well, that's part of my point. If the PCs want to take the time to find the best buyer, they should be able to do so. It just struck me as a little odd that there wasn't any mention of this in the PHB. A single sentence would have done it. It needn't take any more time in-game.

There really isn't a problem here. It's just a shorthand system to speed up play. If you want PCs and NPCs to haggle over prices, then do so.

Totally. As I mentioned, it's not a major issue in my game. I was just wondering about it when doing work on the PCs' merchant house and wanted to see what other people thought .

Why hasn't all the iron and steel from the home city found its way elsewhere yet?

Some of it has, at inflated prices. Tyr (the city with the only iron mine) keeps a tight hold on its iron, though, to maintain its main source of economic strength. (Iron is something of a luxury item, however, and Athasian culture has adapted in its relative absence, although there is a fairly constant demand). That said, the second DS adventure features a war started by a neighbouring city-state with the aim of taking control of the mines following the assassination of Tyr's sorcerer-monarch. My interest in the finer points of the game's economics peters out at about that level of detail, though. I want more detail than the PHB offers, but you can have too much of a good thing...

 

[drothgery]

Like some others up-thread, I figure the sell @ 50%/buy @ 100% is just an abstraction useful for quick transactions that aren't roleplayed out (though I think I'd house rule that anything the PC crafted themselves would go for full price, and if they set up a magic item brokerage, they'd get to buy for half/sell for full from adventurers -- but they'd have to pay taxes, pay employees, and take measures to protect stock from thieves). Basically, PCs are generally unskilled in business and/or haggling, and in a hurry; 'list' price assumes you find the person who has one, and pay what they ask for it if it's not too out of line, and the 50% sell rate means you're selling to the first reputable middleman that offers a decent price.

If PCs put a lot of resources into diplomacy and gather information, and choose to direct them to buying and selling, then they can probably buy things for less than list price, sell for more than 50%, and even occasionally find items that exceed a town's GP limit (though they'll probably have to do the vendor a favor).

 

[Umbran]

Depending on your demographics, the pricing may reflect certain aspects of supply and demand. PCs are usually pretty flush with cash, and have a surplus of magic items. Most of the people in the world don't have the requisite cash or items. From the world's point of view, there is low demand for the items, so they don't sell really well.

There may also be another reason - it is an incentive to keep and use what you find. If the PCs could sell at the same price they'd buy, they'd always sell off items, and buy what they wanted, because they'd not lose anything in the transaction.

 

[mmadsen]

Tyr (the city with the only iron mine) keeps a tight hold on its iron, though, to maintain its main source of economic strength.

That would explain why Tyr's iron mine does not produce as much iron as it could -- it has monopoly power and can extract more profit by restricting supply -- but it wouldn't explain why enterprising merchants aren't transporting relatively cheap swords, which are quite portable and durable, to where they're relatively expensive.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm not a fan of forced--and nonsensical--economics around loot. Frankly, loot and D&D in general is a big problem. You need the loot to keep up with where you're supposed to be for your level after a few levels, which is another problem I have.

Eh. Yeah, the whole thing really bothers me. That's why I prefer playing other d20 games, I suppose.

 

[Arnwyn]

It has been said that NPCs won't buy used gear at full price. I agree that some discount on the price of used gear makes sense. I just have trouble swallowing the idea that it must be a full 50% every time.

Me too. 50% is far too generous.

Conversely, why are PCs expected to pay full price every time? Are we to believe that each and every item that a PC buys is brand, spanking new?

Indeed we are, and it's an excellent assumption AFAIC. The PCs IMC would never consider to buy used when their lives are on the line.

I'm just wondering what other DMs (and players) make of this half-price rule.

Thoughts, anyone?

There's no economics system in D&D. 'Nuff said.

Either give me a full and detailed economics and merchant system, or I'll continue to use the half-price guideline for simplicity. Still waiting, WotC.

 

[mmadsen]

Either give me a full and detailed economics and merchant system, or I'll continue to use the half-price guideline for simplicity. Still waiting, WotC.

What would you want out of a "full and detailed economics and merchant system"?

 

[Technik4]

1. Don't worry about the wealth per level too much. If you gave them enough wealth and they chose to sell some of it, RAW they are still alright (obviously if you take what I've just said to an excessive point you'll get PCs unable to overcome challenges)

2. 50% is a good deal for most small towns or villages. Assuming a stable economy, most stores probably don't have a huge disposable chest full of gold which they are waiting to hand out to the first items an adventurer doesn't want anymore. Especially if the adventurers are selling a niche item, like a class-specific item, they'd be foolish to pay more than 50% because it will not see any return for quite some time (if ever).

For larger cities, I think thats where 50% can circumvented (though never higher than 60-70%, unless the PCs are willing to take undue time). Presumably other adventurers pass through, and there is a larger chance of someone needing some weird item you found in a dungeon. Also, more disposable gold by the general populace. A store-owner would be far more willing to save himself the trouble (exp) of making a niche item (if they can) so it is in stock.

3. NPCs pay full prices for gear too. Its just the shopkeepers and item creationists that get away with the discounts. Creators have to pay exp, shopkeepers have their own troubles:
a) Getting robbed
b) Getting swindled (are you saying this is just a dagger that glows because of prestidigation? Those adventurers told me it was +2!)
c) Competing with each other (generally only an issue in larger towns/cities)
d) Not selling anything for prolonged periods of time (but still having to pay the rent)

I think 50% is fine for a baseline. In smaller towns, it may be 30-40%, in larger cities up to 60-70% (mostly based on the demand of the item - a +1 longsword is useful to many people; a pair of boots of the winterlands, not so much).

As a DM I think you should never sweat the wealth per level guidelines. Always give a little under with the promise of new loot soon. Since most DMs generally give too much, maybe you'll average out to the standard