Selling loot for half price - why?

[Thornir Alekeg]

If characters in my game want to sell items that they have found, and only get half price for them, that is going to mess with the wealth levels in the group. I'm not a huge stickler for such things, but it helps to keep a handle on PC power. If I give out appropriately-valued treasure that (for whatever reason) the PCs don't want and then sell, their wealth levels have now suddenly dropped for no good reason.

Conversely, if the PCs decide to craft an item, they get double the value for the item, and their wealth jumps for no good reason.

It all balances out in the end, and it is the price you pay for not giving up your own time and XP to craft something.

 

[Kaladhan]

I'm going to try something new in my next campaign. It will be hard to sell magical items legally because an organization will have a monopoly on such sales. This means the party will either have to sell their loot at 10% or try to find contacts with organized crimes and try to get 25%.

Is it too cruel?

 

[drothgery]

I'm going to try something new in my next campaign. It will be hard to sell magical items legally because an organization will have a monopoly on such sales. This means the party will either have to sell their loot at 10% or try to find contacts with organized crimes and try to get 25%.

Is it too cruel?

Unless your goal is to have a campaign centered around the PCs breaking up the magic item cartel (which will happen whether you want it to or not), yes.

 

[Mark Hope]

That would explain why Tyr's iron mine does not produce as much iron as it could -- it has monopoly power and can extract more profit by restricting supply -- but it wouldn't explain why enterprising merchants aren't transporting relatively cheap swords, which are quite portable and durable, to where they're relatively expensive.

Like I said above, this does happen to one degree or another. But metal is not relatively cheap on Athas. It is literally 100 times more expensive due to its rarity. A steel longsword costs the equivalent of 1500 gp, for example. The metal trade is small volume, high profit, high risk - and there are alternatives to metal. Most merchant houses rely on steadier, more dependable products.

The PCs IMC would never consider to buy used when their lives are on the line.

Lol. The PCs in my DS games have been known to murder each other over a pointy stick when driven to desperation. Whether something is used or not rarely enters into it .

Conversely, if the PCs decide to craft an item, they get double the value for the item, and their wealth jumps for no good reason.

Well, their actual wealth levels aren't a big problem - there is a decent margin for error in both directions. At present the vast majority of their "wealth level" is tied up in real estate - they have very little actual valuable personal gear to speak of. But I take your point - I alluded to this issue a few posts back. If you're letting the market be flexible beyond the 50% rule, you need to take into account the fact that PCs will be crafting items, and factor this into the treasure that you give out.

I'm going to try something new in my next campaign. It will be hard to sell magical items legally because an organization will have a monopoly on such sales. This means the party will either have to sell their loot at 10% or try to find contacts with organized crimes and try to get 25%.

Is it too cruel?

Not from where I am sitting. On Athas magic itself is illegal for the most part, and trying to buy or sell a magic item is likely to get you lynched, never mind the monopoly. The PCs are currently considering making contacts with the Veiled Alliance (Dark Sun's magic terrorists) in order to allow them to get their hands on magic gear more easily. Beats buying the stuff from the elves...

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I'm going to try something new in my next campaign. It will be hard to sell magical items legally because an organization will have a monopoly on such sales. This means the party will either have to sell their loot at 10% or try to find contacts with organized crimes and try to get 25%.

Is it too cruel?

I'm a bit confused. I assume there is more than what you are saying here, or else this makes no sense other than the screw the players.

If the PCs sell it for 10%, is it to the controlling organization? Is that sale then legal? Why would it be capped at 10%? Are there so many people selling items to them, they can offer less?

If the organiztion has a lock on the market, why would it charge list price? Why not jack the prices up as high as they can?

Are there restrictions on the sale of magic items by the organization to others?

A black market usually thrives when access to items are restricted and therefore demand is such that people are willing to pay more than market value for the item. If the black market cannot sell it for a higher price than the legal outlet, and the item is readily available to buy legally, then there would be little demand and little reason to get into this business, and certainly no reason to pay people more for their magic items than the legal route does.

If the sale is illegal no matter what and the only way for the PCs to sell it is through the black market, then 10% or 25% or whatever the black market can get away with makes sense.

 

[S'mon]

I'm going to try something new in my next campaign. It will be hard to sell magical items legally because an organization will have a monopoly on such sales. This means the party will either have to sell their loot at 10% or try to find contacts with organized crimes and try to get 25%.

Is it too cruel?

As long as you hand out adequate wealth-per-level in usable gear*, there's absolutely no reason not to have the base (re)sale value be 10%. There are plenty of real-world goods where 25% of RRP on resale is typical, and that's in a free market economy; with a medieval guild cartel system 10% is certainly plausible.

*Or else adjust CRs, the XP system, etc etc etc.

 

[S'mon]

If the organiztion has a lock on the market, why would it charge list price? Why not jack the prices up as high as they can?

List price might be "as high as they can"; ie the economically optimal pricing point given a single-supplier monopoly. Then work down from there.

 

[S'mon]

If the sale is illegal no matter what and the only way for the PCs to sell it is through the black market, then 10% or 25% or whatever the black market can get away with makes sense.

From what he says, you can:

1. Sell legally to the guild at 10%, buy legally from the guild at 100% of list.

OR

2. Sell illegally via the black market at 25%, buy illegally on the black market at 25%+; I'd guess ca 50% of list after middlemen get their cut.

 

[Peni Griffin]

D&D economics has been whacked from the beginning and you will make yourself crazy if you think about it too hard. As written, they do not work, and have never worked. Each DM and each campaign has an individual point at which it is wise to draw the line in changing things; no one but you can decide where that line is. Various things that have eased the pain for people I've known:

Developing a formula converting time to money for various endeavors (for instance, spending x amount of time looking for a buyer generates x% more on resale; adding extra time makes magic item creation cheaper, etc.).
Tweaking campaign settings to reflect the economic reality desired; i.e., central locations where adventurers can meet to swap magic items; assigning values to locations to indicate inflated or depressed markets;
Using real-world knowledge to create tables randomizing profit and loss from economic endeavors such as resale of titems (economics majors who are also game mechanics adore doing this).

As for why such things aren't mentioned in the books: The designers are not (and apparently no designers ever were) interested in economics in D&D, and assume that any players who are can and will introduce their own tweaks. Did 3E not include the famous line about "guidelines not rules?"

 

[mmadsen]

Like I said above, this does happen to one degree or another. But metal is not relatively cheap on Athas. It is literally 100 times more expensive due to its rarity. A steel longsword costs the equivalent of 1500 gp, for example. The metal trade is small volume, high profit, high risk - and there are alternatives to metal. Most merchant houses rely on steadier, more dependable products.

I italicized "relatively" to emphasize that despite its high price on Athas, steel is relatively cheap in Tyr compared to its neighbors. Any time a good is cheaper in one place than another, there's an incentive to buy low, sell high. Steel swords are portable and durable, so I would expect them to migrate from Tyr, where they are relatively inexpensive, to the rest of Athas.