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Selling loot for half price - why?
- Thread starter Mark Hope
- Start date
Doug McCrae
Legend
Because he's rich. In our own world, the wealth of the richest individuals, such as Bill Gates, rivals that of small nations.JVisgaitis said:
An army couldn't bring its strength to bear effectively on small numbers of high power monsters. Only a fraction of the troops could fit in the dungeon corridors. It would be like the French at Agincourt, constrained by the forest. An adventuring party is the best tool for the job. You need a concentration of force.JVisgaitis said:
GrumpyOldMan
First Post
One of my games of choice (HârnMaster) uses the following system.
The character tries to figure out how much the item is worth
Critical Success = within 1%
Marginal Success = within 10%
Marginal Failure = within 25%
Critical Failure = within 50%
The referee makes the roll and tells them.
Armed with this knowledge they then try local merchants.
The merchants appraise the item using the same system.
The merchant then decides how much to offer (30-60% of value is suggested). I tend to use 50% as an upper limit.
Occasionally role-playing this can be fun (especially when the players critically fail and hugely underestimate an items value – they get a poor offer and think it’s great!). But doing this for every item would be tedious.
How much detail do you really need?
The 50% rule is fast, simple, and generous.
Certainly it’s more than I would dish out.
The character tries to figure out how much the item is worth
Critical Success = within 1%
Marginal Success = within 10%
Marginal Failure = within 25%
Critical Failure = within 50%
The referee makes the roll and tells them.
Armed with this knowledge they then try local merchants.
The merchants appraise the item using the same system.
The merchant then decides how much to offer (30-60% of value is suggested). I tend to use 50% as an upper limit.
Occasionally role-playing this can be fun (especially when the players critically fail and hugely underestimate an items value – they get a poor offer and think it’s great!). But doing this for every item would be tedious.
How much detail do you really need?
The 50% rule is fast, simple, and generous.
Certainly it’s more than I would dish out.
Ranger REG
Explorer
Oh, the seller will try to reasonbly price the item depending on their existing condition, but he is always motivated by profit. What you bought from the seller at a reduced cost, he have bought them from someone else at a much lower cost he's offering you. IOW, he's not in the retailer business to break even. He gotta feed himself, his workers, and his family.Mark Hope said:
There are things that the rulebook won't cover, otherwise, there will be 100 volumes. That's where DM exercise reasonable judgment.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
I've tried to stay clear of having different buy-sell values for magic items mainly for the purpose of headache reduction.
Rationale: you are not the only adventuring party in the world...others are out there selling their surplus gear as well (not always, if ever, through a middleman), and there's a somewhat thriving informal trade that goes on anyplace adventurers are liable to meet. And if they're selling their gear at x% you can buy it at x% while at the same time selling your stuff at x%...so it naturally gravitates toward a one-price system with occasional variance due to local concerns (e.g. weapons and armour are worth more in a war zone).
Secondary rationale: many years ago, we had a high-low value system for items. Simple enough, until treasury division gets factored in: to make the treasury shares higher, the rule (set by the players; it's their party after all) was that if you claimed something out of treasury you paid the high value. What this led to was each party member's share value changing every time someone made a claim; a mathematical nightmare!
Tertiary (but most important) rationale: I despise economics.
Lanefan
Rationale: you are not the only adventuring party in the world...others are out there selling their surplus gear as well (not always, if ever, through a middleman), and there's a somewhat thriving informal trade that goes on anyplace adventurers are liable to meet. And if they're selling their gear at x% you can buy it at x% while at the same time selling your stuff at x%...so it naturally gravitates toward a one-price system with occasional variance due to local concerns (e.g. weapons and armour are worth more in a war zone).
Secondary rationale: many years ago, we had a high-low value system for items. Simple enough, until treasury division gets factored in: to make the treasury shares higher, the rule (set by the players; it's their party after all) was that if you claimed something out of treasury you paid the high value. What this led to was each party member's share value changing every time someone made a claim; a mathematical nightmare!
Tertiary (but most important) rationale: I despise economics.
Lanefan
Ranger REG
Explorer
Then why are you looting the dragon's treasure for?Lanefan said:
(The adventurer's version of Wal-Mart.)
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Found Items are treasures based on Full Price
Purchasing Items always ask the Full Price
Crafting Items requires base costs at Half Price
Selling Items allows a recoup for Half Price
Selling Items at Half Price gives PCs a pool of money to Purchase Items and thereby optimize their characters. The catch is: optimization with only Found Items will always be at half the original total value (or power). Finding non-magic items is actually better in this case as they tend to have a better return.
Craft Feats allow optimization without loss of value. Essentially, they allow a portion of Magic Items, based on type, to be optimized for free. Found coins and non-magic items are worth even more in this case.
Selection and limits are easily enforced by the DM for Found Items and Purchased Items. Crafting is probably a little harder to enforce, but all magic item creation requires DM approval by the RAW. That's pretty standard. Selling Items, as being discussed in the thread, can easily be adjusted by the DM for a market economy, quick sales, PC bluffing ability, etc.
I don't think any of these 4 rules are based on simulating a world. The rationales given seem to me as after-the-fact explanations. I think these rules are based solely upon each other to control equipment and optimization in the game.
Purchasing Items always ask the Full Price
Crafting Items requires base costs at Half Price
Selling Items allows a recoup for Half Price
Selling Items at Half Price gives PCs a pool of money to Purchase Items and thereby optimize their characters. The catch is: optimization with only Found Items will always be at half the original total value (or power). Finding non-magic items is actually better in this case as they tend to have a better return.
Craft Feats allow optimization without loss of value. Essentially, they allow a portion of Magic Items, based on type, to be optimized for free. Found coins and non-magic items are worth even more in this case.
Selection and limits are easily enforced by the DM for Found Items and Purchased Items. Crafting is probably a little harder to enforce, but all magic item creation requires DM approval by the RAW. That's pretty standard. Selling Items, as being discussed in the thread, can easily be adjusted by the DM for a market economy, quick sales, PC bluffing ability, etc.
I don't think any of these 4 rules are based on simulating a world. The rationales given seem to me as after-the-fact explanations. I think these rules are based solely upon each other to control equipment and optimization in the game.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
This doesn't parse to me; it's not clear whether a found item in treasury is worth full value or half value. Your first line says "full", but "optimization with Found Items will always be at half..." contradicts this.howandwhy99 said:
The question remains, how to avoid the following nightmare: (items values pulled out of a hat)
Party divide treasury so everyone gets equal value assuming equal participation. A 4-member party comes in from the field with 5,000 cash (assume comprised of actual cash and returns from selling jewelry, etc.) and 2 magic items: a longsword and a nice suit of plate armour.
Let's say the sword is worth 2,000 to buy and 1,000 to sell, while the armour is worth 8,000 to buy and 4,000 to sell.
If you claim at high value but sell at low, your total treasury could be any of:
5,000 + 1,000 + 4,000 = 10,000 (nobody claims anything)
5,000 + 2,000 + 4,000 = 11,000 (sword claimed, armour not)
5,000 + 1,000 + 8,000 = 14,000 (armour claimed, sword not)
5,000 + 2,000 + 8,000 = 15,000 (both items claimed)
An individual's share can very here from 2,500 to 3,666 depending what's claimed. Keep in mind this is a very simple example; now expand this to a party of 9 (not all of whom were around for the whole adventure) and a list of 30 magic items of varying value...see the headaches rolling in over the horizon?
This leads inevitably to situations where a character doesn't know whether she can afford to claim something until she knows what others are claiming, and requires constant recalculation every time someone claims something...meaning treasury division takes ages! It was playing in this system for years that made me put my foot down in my games and arbitrarily declare magic items had a single value.
Lanefan
