Sense Motive Use

[RisnDevil]

Would it be unreasonable to use sense motive to "sense" the armor class of an object/person? I understand that it is using Sense Motive to try and learn metagame information, but I have an idea for a bow using character who can use Sense Motive to "know" he can hit a target, with possibly a feat or PrC that would allow the character to take 10 on a bow shot, mostly for show like if he is in an archery competition. So anyways, like I said at the begining, would that be an unreasonable use for Sense Motive?

 

[Aeric]

I see people metagaming AC all the time, simply by paying attention to which to-hit rolls connect and which ones miss. Once the exact number is nailed, then the fighters adjust their Power Attacks accordingly. I figure it's something akin to leading a moving target with a ranged weapon. Fire, miss, adjust aim, fire again, repeat until you hit. Sense Motive does mention body language in the skill description, and I'm pretty sure Sword and Fist had something about alternate uses of that skill in combat, so I don't think it would be totally unreasonable.... Against an inanimate object, however, I would say no. Maybe a Spot check to locate a chink in the target's armor, but not Sense Motive. In any case, I think such an ability might be just as easily represented by an Aim feat or class ability which adds to the to-hit roll.

 

[Khorod]

OA makes use of Sense Motive to estimate the comparative combat strength of other characters relatively quickly. It even allows you to estimate their total attack bonus with their main weapon.

In my experience, giving out specific numbers, or even number ranges, is too meta-gamy. It snaps characters out of character.

Its far better to say things like "Watching his footwork and the way he holds his sword, you fear that this will be a very difficult duel."

In the case of AC, I think its reasonably to make a Sense Motive, or even a Spot check, after watching someone in combat to determine something like "You have seen what this one can and cannot avoid. You are confident that striking him will not be too challenging."

Unfortunately, all this really does is justify player's in making tactical decisions based on the record of their dice-rolls vs. hits. I don't know if even this much AC-info is a good idea.

 

[Li Shenron]

Would it be unreasonable to use sense motive to "sense" the armor class of an object/person? I understand that it is using Sense Motive to try and learn metagame information, but I have an idea for a bow using character who can use Sense Motive to "know" he can hit a target, with possibly a feat or PrC that would allow the character to take 10 on a bow shot, mostly for show like if he is in an archery competition. So anyways, like I said at the begining, would that be an unreasonable use for Sense Motive?

Let Sense Motive guess the Dexterity, but not the exact AC (which could include luck, deflection, magic bonuses...). The armor is visible and can be known by anyone, and may not even need SM.

I think it's fair to require to have watched the other at least one round (i.e. after the opponent was flat-footed) before guessing the Dex.

 

[Chacal]

Interesting idea.

I think it's fair to require to have watched the other at least one round (i.e. after the opponent was flat-footed) before guessing the Dex.

With the same requirement I've used BAB +WIS (combat knowledge +perception) to guess some combat abilities (like feats, attack bonus, Dex, init) . I dont give numbers but some comparison which usually gives an approximation.

I might give synergy bonuses from Sense motive.

Chacal

 

[painandgreed]

For Sence Motive use, I'd let it be used to tell how sure another fighter was of himself once you were facing him. You could get a realative determination of strength compared to yourself or others, but not AC alone. Of course, this means that one can bluff to appear as a higher level/AC/ability.

For determination of AC especially for an archer trying to determine a shot, I'd use Spot. Armor that wasn't under a cloak or something like that would be a DC 5. DC 10 if under a cloak or obscured. Seeing magic items that are suspitious or magical qualities of armor would be something like a 20 to allow a Spell craft check to see what they were (Are those Bracers of Protection?). Determining natural AC would probably be a 15. Then somebody could Disguise themselves to appear as a higher AC. Don't forget range modifiers for spotting.

 

[robberbaron]

Sounds like an in-game use for Craft: Armoursmith. A skilled armour manufacturer should be able to say how protective an opponent's armour would be.

Perhaps a level check (DC20?) might give an insight into how "dodgy" he looks.

 

[Razz0putin]

I'd say no. Now as for the players paying attention to which AC someone was yes there's a little metagaming going on but I write that off as they are fighting that individual and learning how he fights/moves. With that in mind someone could use knowledge tactics to get a rough idea how defensive someone was if they had seen them fight. I really like the idea of someone being able to bluff this roll and seeming to be a master fighter sounds like something right out of the movie "Maverick".

 

[Roxlimn]

Complete Adventurer outlines a new use for Sense Motive which allows a character to gauge the combat power of a particular opponent. I think that's more appropriate. Of course, just noting the target's armoring and species might be enough to give a shrewd PC a good estimate.