[Sensitive question] Is there cultural appropriation in gaming?

[SwivSnapshot]

If you want a rational, reasoned discussion, you'll need to provide a better definition of "cultural appropriation" then a link to a Google search. One of the issues with the ongoing discussion in the media is that cultural appropriation lacks a rigorous definition- a team mascot that is culturally insensitive isn't the same as appearing in blackface at a fraternity party which isn't the same as a gamer playing a ninja in a table top or online game.

That said, I agree with those whose position is "Yeah, it happens every session."

 

[Richards]

I just want to echo Redthistle's comments: that was an awesome speech by Lionel Shriver provided in the link. Thanks, Dualazi!

Johnathan

 

[Lwaxy]

I don't understand all the nonsense about so-called "blackface" when it is just simple dress up - nor do my African friends. Seriously, at least the Nigerians and other (usually West) Africans I have contact with find the whole concept of being offended by someone dressing up as someone else, no matter the make up used, as totally ridiculous and "American." Means the US, again, trying to enforce their view of things on everyone else. And that's lead to a stereotype about American blacks which in itself is another issue. At least for the US folks, their issue with black makeup has a historic base, however flawed their reasoning now is.

I find the whole idea that something could be "appropriated" in RPG ridiculous. By trying to make such things an issue, you could as well forbid crossgender. The whole point is to be able to play anything you want.

I have a lot more issue with cultural falsification, that is dressing up as something or the other while not having a clue what you are doing and what that supposed culture is all about, as in mentioned "Indian" or "African" costumes or the Lederhosen German or, independent of costumes, those "Indian" dream catchers and other bits and pieces of other cultures, which usually have little to do with the original meaning they have in the culture in question and often promote prejudice and stereotypes long disproved.

This is something that can't really happen in fantasy or sci-fi RPG though, unless you complain about someone playing a too dominant male Drow, because as everyone knows they are all matriarchal It is all made up stuff, no one can, with any sanity, have an issue with it. The only exception may be in LARP when a setting uses existing stereotypes, as for example "gypsies" or "plains people" which are often nothing but stereotyped real world groups. Never lead to any issues I know about, but you never know.

Now, in a real world (with or without magic) style game, I am usually very careful as a GM as to what I allow in my sessions. Not because my players would complain but because I need things accurate (very obsessive about that). Someone wanting to play a member of an existing religion or culture (even if it is another white culture) needs to put some research in so we don't end up with a James Bond style Voodoo cult/Italian Mafia mockery or the like. Nothing to do with appropriation, it's just a game everyone can have fun with without insulting anyone.

 

[Lwaxy]

I think it is funny that this concept did not pop up in the 80's and 90's when all the white boys were listening to rap music and running around talking and dressing like they were from the 'hood

There were issues, it was just not that much in the public eye then, because, what internet?

 

[delericho]

There is, by definition. It's part of the job description. The more interesting question is where it becomes a problem.

Yep, this.

 

[Eltab]

"Cultural appropriation" is a highly negative term that describes what used to be called "Assimilation" - the idea that different groups living near each other start doing things like each other.

Everybody becomes Irish on St. Patrick's Day (even people who have no idea who Patrick was, or why he is a saint), and everybody turns German for Oktoberfest. Pizza is supposed to be Italian, and lots of non-Chinese people eat Chinese food. None of this is an insult waiting to happen; it's how we join in when somebody is having fun.

I saw an article complaining that it was "inappropriate cultural appropriation" to eat foods from ethnic or geographic groups to which you & yours do not belong - so 99% of the grocery is off-limits to each person. And it would seem that geography is highly confining, and determinative; maize originated in Mesoamerica but oats were first domesticated in Europe while rice was found in Pacific coastal Asia. And pity the poor guy whose ancestors came from atop high mountains where nothing grows at all.
Absurd "reasoning" and little more than an excuse to get up on a self-righteous high horse and do the Pharisee thing* at everybody else's expense.

* "Thank you, oh God, for making me such a good person; I am so much better than those slimeballs over there"

 

[pemerton]

Is it cultural appropriation for a white person to roleplay a nonwhite person, or for an American to roleplay a character based upon, say, a feudal Japanese samurai? How much does (or should) cultural appropriation matter in the theatre of the mind?

Interesting thread - especially in light of the current debate around Lionel Shriver's talk, which has drawn a lot of criticism.

I've run OA games with white players, and had white players play Black and East Asian characters in a GH game. I think one significanct difference between this sort of RPGing, and more standard instances of "appropriation", is that RPGing doesn't (generally) represent the person/race/culture to a wider audience. So there is not the element of misrepresentation or stereotyping in a performance/composition for others to experience; nor of "silencing" or filling cultural space with distorted or appropriated representations.

(And anyone who thinks that people of colour didn't notice M&M's popularity fifteen-odd years ago, and wonder how it connects to the fact that he is white, needs to have a rethink.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

When is it problematic?

When RW stuff gets "whitewashed", like when the Egyptian pantheon was depicted as Caucasian in an old D&D project- no other RW non-Eurocentric pantheon in that product was similarly treated.

Shoehorning can also be a problem. By that I mean when a game, setting or even a homebrew uses concepts drawn from one culture to model another, such as European elves, dwarves & sprites to model Asian cultures, even thwhen go they have their own "fey" & supernatural creatures. There may be some overlap & similarity between those legends, but why not use the stuff closer to the source of inspiration? At LEAST in a commercial product. A homebrewer may not have the time or resources to do the homework necessary, but someone doing it for money has no excuses.

 

[Blue]

I'm going to flip the question around.

If it IS cultural appropriation, then the term is so diluted to have no meaning. It means no author could ever write a character that did not match their ethnicity, gender, time-frame, and an age-bracket they have experienced without it being CA. No actress could play a role that they had to, you know, ACT for. What, you're doing a Victorian piece, is that cultural appropriation? No mixed troupe of dancers could ever do a number without it being CA to someone. No word could be picked up in another language; is it cultural appropriation for new technology words in French to be based off their original English counterparts? If that's what CA means, then it's too thin to have any meaning.

So basically my answer is: I don't care. Either it's not happening and I don't care, or it's meaningless and I don't care.

Yes, this will rile some people. But it shouldn't. Because perfectly fine in my definition is that it does have real, valid meaning. Because it's not diluted so much that you can brush it on everything.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't understand all the nonsense about so-called "blackface" when it is just simple dress up - nor do my African friends. Seriously, at least the Nigerians and other (usually West) Africans I have contact with find the whole concept of being offended by someone dressing up as someone else, no matter the make up used, as totally ridiculous and "American." Means the US, again, trying to enforce their view of things on everyone else. And that's lead to a stereotype about American blacks which in itself is another issue. At least for the US folks, their issue with black makeup has a historic base, however flawed their reasoning now is.

The problem with blackface* when it is "just simple dress up" is that it so rarely is that. Most of the time you see it- at least in the USA- deeply offensive stereotypes of criminality, stupidity and sub humanity are involved, or it has cost someone of that ethnicity an opportunity. And how is an observer to distinguish between the options? It is a cultural 3rd rail, even when done by professionals.** Best to let it alone.

If it helps, consider the phrase "white pride". There are some who try to use it in a very neutral way. But the vast majority of times you'll see it, it's being used by NeoNazis, Klansmen, and other white nationalists. If you're a Caucasian trying to start a "white pride" organization, be prepared for pushback.

And I'm not surprised that Africans don't get it. Like Caribbean islanders, in some regions of the South- like Louisiana- they were not necessarily subject to the same treatment as American blacks. Africans could go in the theater's front door in New Orleans society, "N"s had to go in through the service entrance.






* or redface or yellowface

** See Ted Danson's diasterous results working in blackface at an event at the request of then-girlfriend Whoopi Goldberg. But see also completely different results for Robert Downey, Jr. in Tropic Thunder.