[Sensitive question] Is there cultural appropriation in gaming?

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Gentlegamer

Adventurer
If you want to destroy RPGs, give credence to the critics crying "cultural appropriation" or any of the other SJW/cultural Marxist buzzwords.

You cannot argue with them, they have been programmed to respond to stimuli in a pre-determined manner.

They are doing the jobs of their masters who wish to destroy all authentic culture and civil society.
 

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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
I have not seen any DM or player use a stereotype to portray any culture negatively. Although, I am sure some examples have bound to have existed. But I would refuse to play in those games.

Hopefully, most of us would...if we recognized it. And sometimes, that's the hardest part.

A few months ago, someone on ENWorld pointed out some amazing stereotyping of Romani culture in a commercial RPG product. I didn't know the product myself, but when it was pointed out I saw the issue. But I'll admit I only caught a fraction of what was stereotyping without the poster's explanations. Not being Romani, why would I?
 
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Celebrim

Legend
XP for that.

I was wondering, since I was fully prepared for a storm of denunciation for that post, from you particularly. I certainly didn't hold anything back.

I hate racism. It's a sickness, and one that I was fortunate not to experience directly growing up in a culture where 97% of people had skin darker than mine, but whom seldom if ever counted my fair skin against me, nor do I ever recall any of them demanding anything of me on account of their skin. I had doctors, teachers, ministers, and friends with dark skin, and I thought nothing odd of it.

It required the loving fists of African-Americans to teach me how whites and blacks should not mix, when I moved to the United States.

I hate racism. I hate political correctness. I hate political correctness in part because it is racism.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
After the hard-won progress of the 1960s civil rights movement that made MY life so much easier, what makes me sicker than white supremacists (or their counterparts among the other races) are the self-segregating minorities. It drives me nuts when I hear young black adults talk about how they can't be around whites or other ethnicities.
 

Max_Killjoy

First Post
Given how much we're inundated with outcry about things like "cultural appropriation" in the news media and social media, the skeptical reaction to the concept expressed in this thread, from people who seem all over the political landscape, is like fresh air.
 

flametitan

Explorer
I'd say the bigger issue is that there's not a clear divide between what's ok and what isn't. Myself, I'd argue adding cultural diversity to a game is good, but you need to at least do some research before you make a game focused on another culture, in order to make sure you understand why certain things are the way they are. And also think about why you're doing it. It's one thing to do it because you feel an rpg about a culture would help you better understand it. It's a whole different ballgame if you're doing it to play out offensive stereotypes.
 

pdzoch

Explorer
I'd say the bigger issue is that there's not a clear divide between what's ok and what isn't. Myself, I'd argue adding cultural diversity to a game is good, but you need to at least do some research before you make a game focused on another culture, in order to make sure you understand why certain things are the way they are. And also think about why you're doing it. It's one thing to do it because you feel an rpg about a culture would help you better understand it. It's a whole different ballgame if you're doing it to play out offensive stereotypes.

I second the research. The knowledge and understanding of a culture is crucial. The misrepresenting a culture has two aspects. It is a fault of those who poorly "appropriate" a culture, and it is also a fault of those who misrepresents those cultures as their misguided "champion." And the color of one's skin is NOT an indicator of cultural knowledge. Waaaay too many assumptions are made when people default to skin as the culture badge.
 


Riley37

First Post
I would argue that the crime "cultural appropriation" wants to denounce, is cultural belittlement. I'd generally object to making some cultural analogy, regardless of the culture involved, solely for the purposes of mocking, belittling, or denigrating some group.

I'm the next thing to a Social Justice Warrior; more precisely, I am a Social Justice Cleric. For what it's worth, in the SJ circles I know, that sort of distinction is welcomed and valued. SJWs want to stop the behaviors which are insulting and harmful, with as little loss as possible to the behaviors which are harmless, let alone the behaviors which are respectful, affirming, and/or help people understand each other and their backgrounds.

That said, sure, sometimes we SJWs (and clerics and bards) err on the conservative side. I could dress up as Geordi Laforge with a Starfleet uniform and a cyber visor, but if I painted my skin to match Levar Burton's skin, and if I were in a nation with a long history of whites belittling blacks, as a justification for first slavery then segregation... well, then I'd have to consider whether observers would infer a bigoted, belittling intent. If that seemed likely, then I'd rather choose some other character, than give anyone one more experience of "yup, white people feel free to mock us, with impunity", because that person may have suffered worse that mere casual mockery, and I don't wanna rub salt in a wound. *Even if that were a misunderstanding.* Those are my assumptions and priorities. YMMV.

Is that over-reaction? Maybe. My costume isn't gonna cost anyone their job, their freedom, their family, their life. It depends on whether "rubbing salt in a wound" is an analogy referring to actual wounds. Some say that there's no racism in the USA any more, or at least not at the level of lynching or segregation. Others say that yeah, racism is still widespread, just in different forms. I'm not gonna make a case with examples and citations, not here. If we disagree on whether racism is over, then we're also gonna disagree on whether cultural belittling is part of a larger problem, and thus on how far one should go to avoid it. I'm white; if nonwhite people are wary that I might be racist, just because I'm white - well, I hope they'll see otherwise, if they get to know me, but I cannot fault them for being wary, not if they're "once bitten twice shy". Similarly, I cannot fault people for being wary about whether I'm belittling them, if I'm wearing a yarmulka or a dashiki or a kimono or a plaid kilt.

Let's say that instead of Laforge, I'm in a TRPG using the setting of the "Firefly" TV show. Characters in that setting often use Mandarin Chinese for cursing or slang, such as "bizui" for "shut up" or "mei guanxi" in the sense of "no big deal". If I, speaking in character, never used such phrases - well, maybe I have an in-character reason. (I can't recall Book ever using Mandarin words and he clearly had a Mystery Background.) Or maybe as a player I can't remember the phrases or don't think I can pronounce them adequately. But if I squawk out some made-up vaguely-Cantonese-ish wing-wong gabble, and I'm in effect sneering at Chinese language, as if anything other than English is baby talk - then yeah, that's disrespectful.

I once played in an adventure with pre-written characters, and chose the Japanese lady (guessing correctly, from the thumbnail description, that she was also a kunoichi). When the Big Reveal happened, my immediate response was "Namu Amida Butsu!". It was reflexively in character; I *then* thought in English "oh sh__!". Was that exactly the right thing to say? I dunno. I've watched some Japanese samurai drama with English subtitles, but I might be more accurate to the fictional *genre* than to the actual culture. I didn't see anyone at the table *more* qualified to play a Japanese-background character, so I did my best. Again, we SJWs aren't out to stop anyone from ever having, or simulating, a cross-cultural experience. We just want people to treat each other's backgrounds with respect, or at least without arrogance.

If I run a D&D game in which orcs are a thinly veiled metaphor for stereotypical nonwhite cannibal savages, and half-orcs are clearly analogous to "halfbreeds", then that's more or less racist. It's not far from the source material, either; everyone in Lord of the Rings who is swarthy or slant-eyed is also a Bad Guy; whenever a Good Guy's eye color is mentioned in LOTR, it's blue or grey. (Exceptions?) I ran a story in which a player wrote a character who was a half-orc fighter, raised in human culture, who believed that orcs were savages and that human culture was better. The player was of mixed race, and was intentionally playing an attitude which he had rejected in his own life: that one of his parent's races was better than the other, that he was ashamed of half his ancestry, that he might be a contributing member of society but he'd never rise to the highest ranks. Yeah, that could have been in questionable taste. I think he pulled it off reasonably well. If someone had demanded an explanation, though, I would have expected him to give one.

Another poster raised the question of playing across gender. I rather like 5E's passage on gender and sexuality as part of a character's background. I've played a few female characters. Perhaps a woman might say "well, that's what you, a man, THINK women are like, but you're getting it wrong." If they could suggest specifics for playing my character better, then I'd listen; though with a grain of salt, since women are not all of one mind on that topic either. But I haven't played a stereotypical hot-babe-in-chainmail-bikini, or a damsel in distress whose only combat move is to bash someone from behind with a big blunt object.

One of the common SJW arguments about cultural appropriate goes as follows. If you understand how a veteran would get angry seeing a civilian wearing a military uniform with a Purple Heart, as a Halloween costume, not having earned that Purple Heart the hard way; then you should be able to understand, by direct analogy, how a Cheyenne person would get angry at someone wearing an eagle-feather bonnet, without having earned it the hard way. (If you think they're both wrong and that they're both making a big deal over nothing, then at least you're consistent, but you'd also better be careful about wearing that costume into bars patronized by Marines.)

I've played many characters with military background, modern and fantasy and other settings. I don't know military culture from direct personal experience; I've never served. I'm probably getting some things wrong, misinformed by movies and whatnot. (At least I know not to "lock and load"; with a bolt-action rifle, load and THEN lock the chamber.) So, reversing the SJW argument, I'm appropriating military culture, any time I play a commando or a Starfleet crewmember or a Roman centurion. I don't belittle the military in the process. If a veteran pulled me aside, to say I was getting something wrong, then I would listen, just as in the previous paragraph about playing across gender.

You cannot argue with them, they have been programmed to respond to stimuli in a pre-determined manner. They are doing the jobs of their masters who wish to destroy all authentic culture and civil society.
Well, there you have it: a categorical claim that I, and people like me (social justice adventurers), are not worthy of civil dialogue, that we are only The Enemy, that we lack human volition and autonomy. You know, that kind of reminds me of... well... of certain other categorical dismissals. If this is the opposition to Social Justice Activism, then I'm even more defiant now. Who, exactly, are our masters? Are they the same masters whom Charles Lindbergh and Father Coughlin opposed?

Please don't dress up as a Social Justice Warrior (or Warlock) for Halloween. You clearly don't respect our culture. :)
 

BigVanVader

First Post
I could dress up as Geordi Laforge with a Starfleet uniform and a cyber visor, but if I painted my skin to match Levar Burton's skin, and if I were in a nation with a long history of whites belittling blacks, as a justification for first slavery then segregation... well, then I'd have to consider whether observers would infer a bigoted, belittling intent. If that seemed likely, then I'd rather choose some other character, than give anyone one more experience of "yup, white people feel free to mock us, with impunity", because that person may have suffered worse that mere casual mockery, and I don't wanna rub salt in a wound. *Even if that were a misunderstanding.* Those are my assumptions and priorities. YMMV.

Yeah, but you could just dress as Geordi without painting your face, right? Because the costume is paying homage to a character that you love(as briefly as he appeared), whereas the painted face holds deeper implications. But the costume itself is fine.
 

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