Serious inquiries only please - 100th level adventure hook and module in development

[Yair]

I've been workin on my epic spell grimoire. It's... so arbitrary. Especially given the fact that Kolshadai can round up just about any number of spellcasters for gigantic rituals. For example...

Complete Spell Reflection
This powerful ritual requires 1000 assistants to the primary caster, each casting a single level 2 spell. If cast successfully, any spell cast on the recipient is automatically reflected back unto the original caster. This includes area spells.
If the recipient falls under a dispelling spell effect, he resists the effect with a check of 1d20+primary caster's level+200 [1d20+269 in Kolshadai's case].
DC 125, Price 1,125,000.
Design: Reflect 27, +2 range touch, +180 for level 10 spells, +20 for area spells, +400 for +200 to resist dispelling, x5 permanent, -20 for 10 minutes casting time, -3000 for 1000 level 2 spells. [Note the seed states all non-epic spells are reflected, and only epic spells need a caster level check; my version is slightly less powerful.]

Kolshadai can definitely round up 1000 acolytes to cast a 2nd level spell for him. Heck, he can do it on a daily basis.

We need to set guidelines for the application of mitigating factors, I think.

 

[Sage]

Nice summarization Yair

I guess I don't have to do much fine-tuning
btw. the negative levels are suceptible to SR and have a caster level of 20, so practically useless.

You should give your cohort much more equipment, so as to make him less useless.
I'll try to calculate how much a 87th level PC has *sigh*

 

[Verequus]

I've been workin on my epic spell grimoire. It's... so arbitrary. Especially given the fact that Kolshadai can round up just about any number of spellcasters for gigantic rituals. ...
Kolshadai can definitely round up 1000 acolytes to cast a 2nd level spell for him. Heck, he can do it on a daily basis.

We need to set guidelines for the application of mitigating factors, I think.

The Epic Spell seed is broken - it is that simple. I haven't put that into true numbers, but even a lowly 21st level caster can create following spell:

-Get enough damage to kill all god in existance and steal their free divinity
-Include a true resurrection because of the thrird point
-Mitigate this through backlash damage to a DC of 5 or something like that

After all, it doesn't matter, if you die because of 500d6 damage or of 100,000d6 damage. I'm astonished, that this kind of spell is cast every day.

 

[Sage]

ok, I've run some math and discovored that it's not an exponential increase (y = b*a^x) and not a potens increase (y = b*x^a). Anyway, my feeling from the numbers is that your cohort should have about 150,000,000 gp (175 would be closer but he's probably used some of it on his extraplanar farm and stuff like that).

 

[Sage]

The Epic Spell seed is broken - it is that simple. I haven't put that into true numbers, but even a lowly 21st level caster can create following spell:

-Get enough damage to kill all god in existance and steal their free divinity
-Include a true resurrection because of the thrird point
-Mitigate this through backlash damage to a DC of 5 or something like that

After all, it doesn't matter, if you die because of 500d6 damage or of 100,000d6 damage. I'm astonished, that this kind of spell is cast every day.

good point... however only divine casters will be overpowered in that fashion.
As a thought; these spells have to be developed and it kinda sucks if (during testing) the backlash works but the ressurection part doesn't. I don't think you should be allowed to have spells that kill yourself, or a rule stating:

Backlash can never be higher than damage or, if the spell does not deal damage, have more backlash damage dice than your HD.​

Of course this doesn't really solve the problem, but it probably helps. And it would solve the problem if you remove the backlash = damage option and only have the HD as restriction.

 

[Verequus]

I think, that you don't need necessarily the Life seed - just get a Wand of True Ressurection and adjust the spell, that it simulates an UMD check, which it won't fail. So every caster, who can afford such a magic item can do this. But regarding your limiting suggestion: I think, that it makes attack spells with the Epic system improbable, because the DCs are getting too high. I would use UK's magic system, but he hasn't it published yet.

 

[Sage]

I think, that it makes attack spells with the Epic system improbable, because the DCs are getting too high. I would use UK's magic system, but he hasn't it published yet.

How so? there's no limit to the amount of damage you can deal, only a limit to the allowed backlash, and not many mages would go above that limit anyway.

 

[DM-Rocco]

No, NPCs always get less than PCs of equal rank. Consider it from the take-their-loot angle: if they had PC gear, then after defeating 4 of them the PCs would double their gear value (for a 4-member party), which is waay to much treasure. Still, NPCs get a bit more than treasure-by-EL for some reason. At any rate, they do have less than PCs.
I actually managed fairly well under 5,000,000. I think it would be best to increase it to around 7,000,000 as Sage recommends, he's done the math.

Okay, I seem to remember that cohorts get the same gear as a PC, but as I am at work, I can't verify.

If the math works out then do 7,000,000 +3,000,000. The 3,000,000 must be spent on wacky or cursed items for humor value only

 

[DM-Rocco]

I've been trying to bring together a coherent picture of the power levels involved. Here are the characters we've got, as I understand:
Andronicus the Wizard [Moleculo]: 2250 hp; AC 39; Attack +51; Saves 79, 59, 55; DC 71 [items changed to +30 to Abilities]
Unbreakable the Fighter [DM-Rocco]: 3087 hp; AC 108 to 137; Attack +139; Saves 100, 99, 90; damage/round 506 to 800
Kolshadai the Bard [Yair]: 983 hp; AC 86; Attack +76; Saves 98, 110, 96; damage/round 309
Sonasti the Rouge[Sage]: 1700 hp; AC 105; Attack +97; Saves 78, 124, 77; damage/round 3328 +40 negative levels
(The other characters do not have guideline-based equipment so I can't really evaluate them.)

What we can see is that, first of all, Sage puts us all to shame. He attacks with 4 weapons, does horrid sneak attack damage and 40 levels to boot. Essentially, anything he can regularly hit and is not immune to sneak attack and energy drain will be eliminated in one round from 30 feet away. And he practically can't be hurt, or even noticed. You've got one scary character there, Sage.

More to the point, this is starting to set a standard of capabilities I think. I suggest the following Value Guidelines:
*hp should around 3000 hp for front-line combatants, 1000 to 2000 for secondary combatants and other characters.
*AC must be 60 to have any chance of being useful against even non-combatants. AC 100 to 110 is needed to function in combat, with 150 or so needed for a decent chance to evade front-line combatants.
*Attack bonus of +100 or so is needed for secondary combatants, and frontliners can reach +140 or so.
*Spell DCs reach 71 or so; almost anyone saves automatically.
*Saves are often set too high; +71 or so should suffice. (Epic spells may break this.)
*A reasonable (optimal) damage output will be around 1000 hp/round, around 3000 is deadly and below 500 is weak.

That should be useful for fine-tuning our characters.

I'd take Sage in four rounds

I can't be level drained or sneak attacked, I just have to wait and hold my action until he tries to hit me and strike him when he tries to hit me

Anyway, he does do a bit of damage, mine is less, but Unbreakable is designed for defense and hitting all opponents withing a 15' radius to weaken them over time. Thanks for crunching some numbers though, it helps put us where we need to be.

Perhaps we need to restrict items that offer saving throw bonuses, otherwise, why bother?

Note to self, check how much damage you do in one round, don't want to look too weak.

 

[Verequus]

How so? there's no limit to the amount of damage you can deal, only a limit to the allowed backlash, and not many mages would go above that limit anyway.

The problem are the DCs to develop an high damage dealing spell. "For each additional 1d6 points of damage dealt, increase the Spellcraft DC by +2." The base DC is 19. For a 100th-level a DC of 120 is not much of an hindrance, but you don't get 100d6 of damage, but only 60d6. And you don't have even increased the area.