D&D General Settings of Hope vs Settings of Despair

Remathilis

Legend
This is a long and somewhat rambling essay.

Recent World Events have gotten me thinking about worldbuilding and the nature of D&D settings. Without going into details, I will simply say my view on the state of the world isn't as bright as it was a decade ago. (No further elaboration will be given). In turn, this has influenced my thoughts on D&D worlds and especially tone. Particularly, the idea that settings broadly come in two styles: Hope and Despair.

A setting of Hope is premised on the idea that, despite all its flaws and problems, things are fundamentally Good. Most people are kind, systems work as intended, and Evil is an aberration rather than a natural state. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dragonlance, despite having a multitude of problems, villains, and conflicts, still hover on the idea that most of its people are kind, hardworking and fair, its rulers are wise and even handed, and if good people stand firm, evil will not win. It's an optimistic view of society, one where heroism is in defense of the good in the world. "There's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for".

A setting of Despair is the opposite. It's a world where darkness, hopelessness and greed are the natural and prevalent state of the world. It doesn't mean good doesn't exist, but that it's an aberration to the system. People are mostly selfish and prefer not to get involved. Systems are corrupted by power, wealth, and ambition. Evil has won, even if it's not completely obvious. Ravenloft and Dark Sun are the obvious examples, though even Planescapes's cynical and jaded outlook on morality can be part of this. A setting doesn't need to be completely grimdark, it just has to reflect that standing up for what is right often means standing alone. It also means that typically, no matter what victories you achieve, you cannot make the world fundamentally better. You only can make things more bearable in the short run. “When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles.”

D&D has flirted with both tones, both on a setting level (as I pointed out) and even on a Core Rules level (1e and 4e both had elements of Despair, while 2e, 3e, and 5e feel more Hopeful). And Neither tone is better than the other. It is simply two different approaches.

Which bends me back to the premise. I cannot decide which tone I want to opt for next when I start my new game. I was considering Hope, as my last game was Ravenloft and full of Despair. However, as stated prior, the Recent World Events have made me feel less charitable to the notion that people are good and evil is a glitch in the system. On the one hand, I think if fantasy can convince me of fantastical things like dragons and magic and elves, the idea that most people in a setting wouldn't be xenophobic greedy, or merely apathetic shouldn't be hard to believe either. On the other, I don't know if I could stand another spin through a setting where most people act like jerks, whether they intend to be or not.

I'm looking for people's thoughts on the matter. Which tone do you prefer, how do you run it, and have the Recent World Events changed your take on the tone of your game. Please do not make this about actual politics to keep the topic appropriate, I'm more interested in the tone your game is taking. Hopeful or Despairing.

Thank you,
 

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Almost all of my campaigns have been a middle ground between the two. Even Ravenloft. Evil is meant to be defeated but it will return. Good may be hindered but it will eventually win the day. But in each case, the cycle repeats itself. It’s not too much different from a superhero comic, or Star Wars, or so much fantasy or sci-fi media. What doesn’t exist in pretty much every game I run or even play in is the idea of “Happily Ever After.”

It’s why when I’m reading an entry in Forgotten Realms about Silverymoon (which I was doing recently), I was struck by how much I didn’t like the picture perfect fairy tale, “everything is awesome” setting of the city. It’s too perfect for me to ever honestly consider using it as-is in a game. I had the same issue with Ravenloft. At some level, people have to live there, the sun does rise and at some point, the Darklord will be defeated at least for awhile. A true Grimdark setting will just never be in the cards for me any more than a true Disney-fied Magic Kingdom where everything is happiness and light will be.

As for world events, I don’t try to draw parallels. If they trickle into my game, it’s incidental and more likely, my inspiration comes from media. If real life imitates fiction, well, not much I can do about that.

Don’t know if that helps or not.
 
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I run my campaign worlds like I see the real world: people are complicated, so are their social systems, and sometimes they do bad things. If history has shown us anything, it's that people can do terrible things even with supposedly good intentions. Often because of supposedly good intentions.

My worlds are also existentialist in that there is no greater destiny, and so your purpose depends entirely on your choices and, to some degree, your luck. The "gods" are just things that have worshippers; some of them have a lot of power but they aren't any better than other people (and some aren't even people. Or sentient).

I find this inherently hopeful, since your destiny is in your own hands!
 

@Remathilis - I feel much the same as you do. So, when I'm running my game, I want it to be a lot more hopeful to be honest. I'm rather tired of all the negativity I see and unabashedly want my pretend elf game to be a source of happy thoughts. I mean, good grief, I'm running Out of the Abyss right now. That is not a happy adventure. It could very easily be so dark and twisted. Instead, it's actually been pretty hopeful and I want to keep it that way.
 


I'm looking for people's thoughts on the matter. Which tone do you prefer, how do you run it, and have the Recent World Events changed your take on the tone of your game.
I prefer what you call Hope, the closest to Despair is how bad to overwhelming the odds are and where your starting point is, e.g. is Sauron merely trying to conquer Middle Earth or has Gondor fallen 20 years or so ago and the people make a last stand to turn the tide.

The efforts are never ultimately futile and only buy some time however, change for the better is always possible, it just never will be a happy ‘forever after’.

Current politics has not affected my fantasy settings, it has affected my outlook on humankind however. I’ll leave it at that
 

Settings of Despair that my players must turn into Settings of Hope has been my bread and butter for years and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Not a bad approach.

Personally I go mire middle ground. Baddies doing bad stuff that needs fixin'. But not to grimdark levels.

I haven't ran a grimdark game before. Its on the short list of next game. But its probably FR or longshot Greyhawk/Golarion/Midgard/homebrew.
 

I think both pure hopeful and pure despairing are too limited. Analyzing human interaction using game theory (also a limited lens, but sometimes a useful one) reveals that whether selfish or selfless strategies in classic scenarios like the prisoner’s dilemma are more effective is highly context-dependent. This suggests that people are neither inherently good nor inherently evil, but rather, their behavior is shaped by their circumstances. Different communities encourage different strategies of social behavior, and going against a community’s dominant strategy is always more challenging, though altruistic strategies tend to be more rewarding for everyone in a community, if the community successfully adopts them.

I like for my game worlds to reflect these observed behaviors. Start from a place of despair. Acknowledge harsh realities, pick scabs. But make it possible, if not necessarily easy, for the players to bring hope, to make change. We will never escape the systems that oppress us if we can’t imagine alternatives to those systems. But just imagining better alternatives isn’t enough if we we can’t also imagine how to get from A to B. So, yeah, I’m a big fan of despairing baseline setting assumptions, but with a glimmer of hope that dedicated players can tend, stoke, and build into something bigger if they’re willing to fight for it. It should, perhaps, be easier to give in to despair, but more rewarding to persevere and encourage hope in the long run, if they are successful.

EDIT: On this note I’m also a big fan of focusing on building hope within smaller communities. Even if the heroes can’t fix the world, they can at least make things better within their own little town, and that’s a good place to start. That creates the implication that other heroes could do the same in their towns. If the success of hope vs despair depends on the dominant strategy within a community, the more communities can have their scales tipped towards hope, the closer we get to maybe someday building a predominantly hopeful world. Even if the heroes don’t live to see the day that comes to pass, they can rest easy knowing they did everything they could to bring it closer to fruition, and entrust the next steps to those who come after.
 
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Current politics has not affected my fantasy settings, it has affected my outlook on humankind however. I’ll leave it at that
I think that was what I was trying to get across. My view on humanity has shifted in the recent past and it's made me wrestle with the fundamental nature people in a D&D setting. D&D has moved towards a generally more positive view of society; species are viewed with equality, acceptance of people with different genders or lifestyles, and so on. Even a setting like Ravenloft in 5e isn't as intolerant as it once did. That feels aspirational, but it also feels a touch naive in light of all that had been happening in the world today.

Which is why I'm wrestling with this question. A hopeful world is a good world you must defend against becoming bad. A despairing world is one where it has already fallen and you must fight to make it better. I'm just not sure which one I am up for.
 

I literally alternate these tones monthly.

We're doing Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel, which my group jumped at, as an alternative to waves hands at everything, and then alternate with a darker indie game every other month, typically Shadowdark, but we've also played Mothership and Pirate Borg.

Given the state of the world, my players and I want a chance for escape. But likewise, some months, we also want the possibility of throwing an oligarch out of an airlock.
 

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