Shade Race from Dragon #307...ECL +2!?!

[Vysirez]

I read most of the thread, though I started skimming near the end since it side tracked.

I would have to vote for a +1 LA. It's a strong +1 but that is better then +2. As a comparison look at a tiefling, they get +2dex, +2int, -2chr and some minor elemental resistances and a couple SLAs.

So for a Tiefling vs a Shade you loose -2wis, minor elemental resistances and SLAs and gain the ghost touch. It's a bit better but not a ton. Thats why I say +1LA.

 

[kreynolds]

Thanks for your input, Vysirez!

 

[Benben]

They are on par with Air Genasi: identical stat modifications, with a sexy yet not smackdownable ability.

Looks like +1 LA to me.

 

[kreynolds]

Thanks for the input, Benben!

 

[Madfox]

This was already pointed out by drnuncheon on the first page. Please, at least give me the courtesy of reading the thread before you jump in.

Give me some slack here, I did read the whole thread. I just happened to have missed that particular post, my appologies for that.

As for my second remark, that was partially new - people did point out that racial modifiers where outside the system, but nobody discussed that having a boost to a modifier for 8 levels before somebody else is a big benefit. This is especially true for intelligence which does not work retroactive.

Anyway, I agree that this shade is more like an ECL +1, though I can easily see it becoming +2 when the DM is planning to run a campaign centered around a threat from the ethereal plane or involving a lot of incorporeal opponents.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

You are semi-correct, I read the creature description and never saw that little block on page 30. But that has a Level Adjustment mod, not ECL modifier.

This would make the Wilora a ECL of +4 would it not? Level adjustment plus the Base HD equals ECL and Wilora has 2HD........
2 + Wiloras 2HD= +4 ECL.

Man... build that with an 18 Str (before adjustments), dump stat everything else except Wisdom and Charisma. Take your level four bonus in Strength, and build it as a Cleric 3/Monk 1/Paladin 1/Sorceror 4/Mystic Theurge X with Power Attack and Divine Might. Your Monk attacks will suck, so Finesse your claws and use your Divine Might. Alternate your stat bonuses and every free feat is Extra Turning...

You won't be a power-caster, but you'll be an in-freaking-vincible utility caster that can do respectable damage in melee combat. Even with a less insane build, there's no way that thing's fair at +4 ECL.

 

[kreynolds]

Give me some slack here, I did read the whole thread. I just happened to have missed that particular post, my appologies for that.

Thanks. Apology accepted. Seriously, I was just asking for courtesy. By addressing a point that had already been addressed, that tells me that you were more interested in what you yourself had to say than what anyone else had to say. That's all. But since you just missed that post, I understand, so it's cool.

As for my second remark, that was partially new...

True. It was partially new. I just didn't read it. I stopped once I realized you hadn't read the whole thread. I've read it now though, and its a good point to add.

...though I can easily see it becoming +2 when the DM is planning to run a campaign centered around a threat from the ethereal plane or involving a lot of incorporeal opponents.

I can't. I would handle it the other way around. I wouldn't see a shade in such a game as having an advantage. His advantage is already taken into account with the +1 ECL, but I _would_ see the other non-shade characters as being disadvantaged.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

FWIW, I think that +2 to a stat alone is not worth a +1 LA.

Look at a standard 25 point character, say, a Wizard at 7th level. Is anyone seriously suggesting that a 6th level wizard with an 18 Int is just as good as a 7th level wizard with a 16 Int. My Transmuter will bet you an Ice Storm, and a Dimensional Door, that you are wrong!

+2 Int gives 1 spell (which may be a low level one depending on stat boosters), +1 to DC, and some skills points.

+1 level gives 2 or 3 high level spells, more HPs, and some skill points. Plus a boost to saves, 1/4 of a stat point, and 1/3 of a Feat.

I think the Shade is a weak +1 ECL. I think you are right that it is about a +0.5 ECL rounded up. Take away either the +2 Int or +2 Dex and this is a +0 ECL race.