Shadow Band from AV

[Ibixat]

The shadow band ring from AV, level 27 ring, seems like a rogues best friend.

Shadow Band Level 27

Property: Gain concealment.

It's power as a minor action gives you total concealment until the end of your next turn, if you've hit a milestone for the day it's until the end of the encounter.

Is total concealment enough to grant combat advantage on every attack you make? I know it negates the possibility of any creature having combat advantage against you because you have to be able to see a target to have CA against it, and total concealment means nothing can see you. It also prevents any and all OA's from triggering since you again can't be seen. But does it mean that they are effectively "blinded" to you or that you are effectively "invisble" to them. Does it instead mean that after every attack you would need to make a stealth check to hide from them again even though they can't see you?

The property of the ring alone means that as long as you stealthed in total cover or concealment before moving out into the open you could walk around without anyone ever noticing you as long as you never attacked or talked etc as long as their passive perception didn't beat your stealth roll.

In the end any way you look at it a ring that grants +2 to all defenses vs ranged or melee attacks (-2 to hit from concealment) is pretty nice, when you toss in something like a cloak of distortion to give a -5 to being hit from a ranged attack if more than 5 squares puts you at a nice +7 defense vs ranged attacks from more than 5 squares out, hmmm maybe these items are actually an archery ranger's best friend.

 

[inkmonkeys]

Yes, total concealment gives you CA on every attack. PH 281: Total Concealment. You can't see the target. PH 280: The following situations give an attack combat advantage against a defender. When a defender is... ...unable to see the attacker.

 

[Ibixat]

Yes, total concealment gives you CA on every attack. PH 281: Total Concealment. You can't see the target. PH 280: The following situations give an attack combat advantage against a defender. When a defender is... ...unable to see the attacker.

Thank you!

I glanced at page 280 like a dozen times searching for it in writing and that crazy table just kept getting ignored!

Good think stealth was errata'd or with that ring you'd basically be in stealth 100% of the time as a rogue with concealment.

 

[yesnomu]

I'm real iffy about allowing this, along with the Ring of Nullification (property: +3 bonus to saves). I know that epic rings are allowed to be powerful, but this seems a bit over the top. Isn't your power supposed to come primarily from the big three items and your class powers? This in effect raises all your defenses by 2 against melee and ranged attacks, which seems too powerful even for level 27.

Similarly nasty is the Opal Ring of Remembrance (property: +2 item bonus to Int attacks), but that one was banned on sight. No way I'd even consider it, at any level.

 

[aurance]

I'm real iffy about allowing this, along with the Ring of Nullification (property: +3 bonus to saves). I know that epic rings are allowed to be powerful, but this seems a bit over the top. Isn't your power supposed to come primarily from the big three items and your class powers? This in effect raises all your defenses by 2 against melee and ranged attacks, which seems too powerful even for level 27.

Similarly nasty is the Opal Ring of Remembrance (property: +2 item bonus to Int attacks), but that one was banned on sight. No way I'd even consider it, at any level.

You are a wise man.

 

[chitzk0i]

This in effect raises all your defenses by 2 against melee and ranged attacks, which seems too powerful even for level 27.

On the other hand, you could mix in monsters with close attacks, area attacks, or auras. There are some magic items and feats that let you ignore concealment, so you could give those to some other monsters from time to time. Monsters above the PCs level usually don't care much about a measly +2 defenses. I'd expect mechanical traps to ignore concealment unless they use some kind of magic eye.

In other encounters, monsters will probably have a had time hitting a character with this ring. That's probably intended. Let the player have some fun being hard to hit, but the PCs should run into some monsters that take them down a peg. In this case, I think it'd be easy enough to work around.

As for the ring of remembrance, what about insubstantial monsters? It won't matter that you hit easily if they take half damage!

 

[Ibixat]

On the other hand, you could mix in monsters with close attacks, area attacks, or auras. There are some magic items and feats that let you ignore concealment, so you could give those to some other monsters from time to time. Monsters above the PCs level usually don't care much about a measly +2 defenses. I'd expect mechanical traps to ignore concealment unless they use some kind of magic eye.

In other encounters, monsters will probably have a had time hitting a character with this ring. That's probably intended. Let the player have some fun being hard to hit, but the PCs should run into some monsters that take them down a peg. In this case, I think it'd be easy enough to work around.

As for the ring of remembrance, what about insubstantial monsters? It won't matter that you hit easily if they take half damage!

Ignoring concealment is not all that common of an ability from what I've seen. Is there a blanket ruling that traps ignore concealment? It makes sense but often the rules don't make sense for some things but since I only really play RPGA games the rules are fairly immutable. I mean it would be quite silly to get a minus too hit on a pit trap because I have concealment... but if the rules say it's so it would be so =P in an rpga game at least.

 

[yesnomu]

On the other hand, you could mix in monsters with close attacks, area attacks, or auras. There are some magic items and feats that let you ignore concealment, so you could give those to some other monsters from time to time. Monsters above the PCs level usually don't care much about a measly +2 defenses. I'd expect mechanical traps to ignore concealment unless they use some kind of magic eye.

In other encounters, monsters will probably have a had time hitting a character with this ring. That's probably intended. Let the player have some fun being hard to hit, but the PCs should run into some monsters that take them down a peg. In this case, I think it'd be easy enough to work around.

As for the ring of remembrance, what about insubstantial monsters? It won't matter that you hit easily if they take half damage!

Sure I can use monsters/traps with area attacks, and insubstantial enemies. Sure, they will make these things less effective. But that's a band-aid, it's ignoring the real problem and giving into the arms race escalation that doomed 3.5. I'd rather just use a mix of monsters, and have the items my characters use be balanced and not require me to change my play style.

Plus, I introduce too many insubstantial monsters and Inescapable Force + Force weapons are the new black.

 

[balard]

Doesn't area and close attacks beats concealment? In this case is +2 in defences only against ranged and melee attacks.

 

[chitzk0i]

Sure I can use monsters/traps with area attacks, and insubstantial enemies. Sure, they will make these things less effective. But that's a band-aid, it's ignoring the real problem and giving into the arms race escalation that doomed 3.5. I'd rather just use a mix of monsters, and have the items my characters use be balanced and not require me to change my play style.

Plus, I introduce too many insubstantial monsters and Inescapable Force + Force weapons are the new black.

Epic magic items get to be more awesome. Some of them let your character grab the spotlight just with that one item. If it starts an arms race, it's a real short one, because you're going to retire these characters at 30th level. You're in the home stretch to legendary status, so you better be inspiring some legends.

Besides, I was talking about a mix of monsters! I brainstormed that list of anti-Shadow Band tactics in a few minutes. For every forth or fifth fight, come up with an aspect of the encounter that counteracts a specific strength of one or more of the PCs. If the party melee fighters have been grabbing a bunch of glory, throw in a monster that really punishes going toe-to-toe with it.

I haven't seen the Shadow Band in play, but I don't think it's too much to worry about. I came up with a list of ways to downplay its strength. You said you didn't want to use them because it would "change your playstyle". Do you run the same encounters for every campaign?

I'm not familiar with many epic-level monsters, but it's possible that a lot of them have auras and close/area attacks that ignore concealment. Wouldn't it be silly if the monsters you were going to use anyway are already good against this?