Shadow Races up!!!

[Dice4Hire]

I think if a rules set wants to have elements that are significantly inferior to other elements on purpose, it would do well to call that fact out so that people who are just playing what they want don't accidentally fall into a trap while those who are more mechanically minded neatly avoid such pitfalls and still produce the character they want to play.

Unfortunately that requires game designers who are able to recognise when they have created a mechanically inferior option so they can label it as such.

Just ban those who are not so mechanically minded form your table. Problem solved.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Just ban those who are not so mechanically minded form your table. Problem solved.

Personally I'd rather that the people paid to be mechanically minded... well... were.

 

[Aegeri]

Just ban those who are not so mechanically minded form your table. Problem solved.

Before certain races became extremely poor trap options for the unwary, this wasn't actually required. It isn't very hard to make a reasonably effective character in 4E: Unless you have completely silly (and unnecessary) penalties that are out of whack with the rest of the system.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

No, a +2 to hit is pretty much 10% of the time useful, rest of the time it's sitting there looking pretty but not doing anything. Compared to heroic effort which gives a +4 after you know the result of your roll, which is 90+% of the time useful.

Huh? This is nonsensical. ANY bonus to-hit is virtually always useful. It may or may not make a difference when you actually roll the dice, but +4 is only going to actually turn a miss into a hit 20% of the time vs 10% of the time for +2. Either one will up the effectiveness of say using a daily while the bonus is in effect.

Yes, the fact that you can't pick the exact round when you will get your bonus is not GREAT, but with 3 benefits to choose from there is very little chance that one of them will not turn out to be beneficial, and all 3 are obviously designed to be broadly applicable and give you a set of choices that is very unlikely to include nothing beneficial in any given round.

There are absolutely better racial powers in the game, no doubt about it. This one is still handy and worth having.

 

[Mengu]

Huh? This is nonsensical. ANY bonus to-hit is virtually always useful. It may or may not make a difference when you actually roll the dice, but +4 is only going to actually turn a miss into a hit 20% of the time vs 10% of the time for +2. Either one will up the effectiveness of say using a daily while the bonus is in effect.

Gaining the bonus before you know the result of your roll, verses after you know the result of your roll is a huge difference. The chance the power will turn a miss into a hit goes from a probability expression, to a near certainty. The +2 from the Vryloka power has a 10% chance of turning your next attack from a miss to a hit. The +4 from heroic effort can be used when you know you've missed the target by a few points, and turns your miss into a hit. If heroic effort gave +4 to your next attack, then sure, it would be a simple matter of +2 vs +4 (and a more controllable trigger), but that's not the case.

 

[Almacov]

I think if a rules set wants to have elements that are significantly inferior to other elements on purpose, it would do well to call that fact out so that people who are just playing what they want don't accidentally fall into a trap while those who are more mechanically minded neatly avoid such pitfalls and still produce the character they want to play.

Unfortunately that requires game designers who are able to recognise when they have created a mechanically inferior option so they can label it as such.

I guess I just DM/play/read differently.
To me, the flavour of these races (particularly that of the Shade*) already implies that they will have strong weaknesses, and any players paying attention to the text will realize that and either accept it or pass on the race.
Any players not paying attention to the text... well, odds are these races will be kindof difficult to incorporate into your campaign anyway, if you don't spell them out as options from the start.

To each his own, anyhow. I'm sorry the design is frustrating to you, and hope it doesn't negatively impact your game experience.

(For the record though, and I don't think this is imparting a bias on my opinion here, I don't actually view the Vryloka as that mechanically bad. Perhaps more complicated to play, in the way that an assassin is more complicated to play, but that's why it's in a supplement rather than the PHB or essentials book.)

*The Vryloka flavour presented in the excerpt is a little confusing in places.
"She offered to them a powerful blood-bonding ritual that would grant them the vitality of vampires without subjecting them to the taint of undeath. These human nobles became the first living vampires—blessed with great power gained at the price of their own vitality."
Seems like a pretty bad deal to me. =P (And the fact that "Living Dead" explicitly spells out that they are in fact "tainted by undeath" is another kick in the pants.)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

*The Vryloka flavour presented in the excerpt is a little confusing in places.
"She offered to them a powerful blood-bonding ritual that would grant them the vitality of vampires without subjecting them to the taint of undeath. These human nobles became the first living vampires—blessed with great power gained at the price of their own vitality."
Seems like a pretty bad deal to me. =P (And the fact that "Living Dead" explicitly spells out that they are in fact "tainted by undeath" is another kick in the pants.)

that is part of the fun...the deal was unfair. She totally fast talked them.

I have the old world of darkness lilith in my mind, and I really like this idea... Then again I may take the tremer origin and mix it in for them

 

[webrunner]

Shadow races are inherently unbalanced. They're not determined by any sort of athletics check or speed, but whether you're moving away or toward from the sun.

 

[CelticMutt]

(For the record though, and I don't think this is imparting a bias on my opinion here, I don't actually view the Vryloka as that mechanically bad. Perhaps more complicated to play, in the way that an assassin is more complicated to play, but that's why it's in a supplement rather than the PHB or essentials book.)

HoS is as much a supplement as PHB2 or 3, or the two Essentials Heroes books.

 

[Almacov]

HoS is as much a supplement as PHB2 or 3, or the two Essentials Heroes books.

PHB 2 and 3 I do count as supplements, yep.
The Essentials books are the new baseline though, from what I can see.