Shadowdancer's "Shadow Jump" Ability

[rowport]

Hey, ENWorlders! I am currently playing a Scout (the class, not just the role- heh) in Age of Worms. I am building him as a classic Skirmisher (the role, *and* the class ability- heh), with Expeditious Dodge and Mobility heading towards Spring Attack and Shot on the Run.

Here is my question: how does the Shadowdancer's "Shadow Jump" ability work in-play? I am planning to go Scout/Swashbuckler/Shadowdancer but am confused about the Shadow Jump interacting with my other abilities. Specifically:
1. If I move 10'+ with Shadow Jump, does that count for Skirmish (since I do not cover the intervening space as with normal movement)?
2. If I move 40'+ with Shadow Jump, does that count for Expeditious Dodge?
3. Can I use Spring Attack along with Shadow Jump, or does breaking the Jump in two pieces count as two actions?
4. If #3 is allowed, then can I attack, or do I have to stop because using Shadow Jump is a Standard Action?

I guess I am mostly confused because I have seen several discussions about Sneak Attacking as a Shadowdancer that did not reference the above details. Is that because most Shadowdancers just use normal movement combined with Hide in Plain Sight? If that is the case, then:
1. Could you use Hide in Plain Sight combined with Spring Attack to attack from hiding, and if so, would the Hide rule from Complete Adventurer let you then Hide again at -20?
2. Could you use Hide in Plain Sight combined with Shot on the Run to attack from hiding, and if so, would the Sniping rule let you Hide again at -20?

Help! THANKS!

Shadow Jump (Su)
At 4th level, a shadowdancer gains the ability to travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some shadow. A shadowdancer can jump up to a total of 20 feet each day in this way; this may be a single jump of 20 feet or two jumps of 10 feet each. Every two levels higher than 4th, the distance a shadowdancer can jump each day doubles (40 feet at 6th, 80 feet at 8th, and 160 feet at 10th). This amount can be split among many jumps, but each one, no matter how small, counts as a 10-foot increment.

Dimension Door
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4, Travel 4
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)

You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you.

If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.

If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.




EDIT: Added ability description from SRD

 

[MarkB]

As described, Shadow Jump is a teleport effect. I wouldn't consider it movement at all for the purposes of the Scout abilities, and definitely not for Spring Attack.

This is irrelevant, however, for two reasons.


First, Shadow Jump, as a Supernatural ability, defaults to requiring a standard action to use unless otherwise specified - and it does not appear to be otherwise specified. That leaves you with only a move action that round, so you cannot attack.

Second, Shadow Jump works as the dimension door spell, and as you can see from the spell description, the caster of dimension door can take no further action until his next turn.

 

[rowport]

As described, Shadow Jump is a teleport effect. I wouldn't consider it movement at all for the purposes of the Scout abilities, and definitely not for Spring Attack.

This is irrelevant, however, for two reasons.


First, Shadow Jump, as a Supernatural ability, defaults to requiring a standard action to use unless otherwise specified - and it does not appear to be otherwise specified. That leaves you with only a move action that round, so you cannot attack.

Second, Shadow Jump works as the dimension door spell, and as you can see from the spell description, the caster of dimension door can take no further action until his next turn.

Mark-

OK, thanks! That is how I read the descriptions as well (although I am less clear about whether it is movement or not, but as you say, that is moot because of the two other limitations you cited).

So, given that, I have to presume that all the sundry Rogue/Shadowdancers are not using Shadow Jump to Sneak Attack- they would not be able to take an attack based on the same logic. So, has anybody else had some in-game experience with Shadowdancers? Do they just use normal movement and the Hide skill (with Hide in Plain Sight)?

Thanks for all feedback; I am seriously considering re-planning my progression now that I know how Shadow Jump works (or rather, does *not* work, at least for my purposes)!

 

[Evilhalfling]

the 9th lvl shadowdancer IMC has used his Shadow Jump almost exclusively as a way to get out of situations (or go through walls)
I ruled that he is not considered hidden when he ends a jump, so his Modus Operndi is to Hide (in ps) and move into postion, once there he full attacks. Jumping/tumbling to saftey if he gets pounded.
He also sends Janice (shadowfriend) through the floor or nearby walls to set up flanking.

a spiked chain - vs enemies suffering from strength drain is great for trip/disarm.
He came to this strategy late, so he is not optimized, his chain is +2 merciful, not 'of tripping' and he lacks Imp Trip feat. Chain + expertise + Imp Trip is a lot of feats late in career.

 

[rowport]

the 9th lvl shadowdancer IMC has used his Shadow Jump almost exclusively as a way to get out of situations (or go through walls). I ruled that he is not considered hidden when he ends a jump, so his Modus Operndi is to Hide (in ps) and move into postion, once there he full attacks. Jumping/tumbling to saftey if he gets pounded.
He also sends Janice (shadowfriend) through the floor or nearby walls to set up flanking.

Interesting. So, his main ability use is HiPS and flanking with his shadow companion. (It sounds like he is a Rogue/Shadowdancer, right?) The problem I have is that my build is quite different; to get Skirmish damage (which is my main damage output!) I have to keep mobile, so I would never use full attacks. I could use my shadow to help out my Rogue buddy, but it has limited utility for my character, since leaving the shadow in position for me to Spring Attack into a flank is a sure way to get my shadow pounded! Hmm. I suppose that I could just take a few levels of Shadowdancer and then go back to more Scout levels; really, the big advantage of more Shadowdancer is a longer distance and/or more teleports with Shadow Jump, but it sounds like HiPS is the only real direct benefit to my Spring Attack plan, other than a last-ditch escape (or through walls- good suggestion there!)

a spiked chain - vs enemies suffering from strength drain is great for trip/disarm. He came to this strategy late, so he is not optimized, his chain is +2 merciful, not 'of tripping' and he lacks Imp Trip feat. Chain + expertise + Imp Trip is a lot of feats late in career.

I can see how this would work really well- our party Rogue is starting down this path already. But, it does not really fit my character concept, and mechanically it does not mech terribly well with my Spring Attack/Mobility schtick. To get the mileage out of Skirmish and Expeditious Dodge I need to move 40' each round. Hmm.

Any other thoughts? At one point I had considered Assassin instead of Shadowdancer, maybe that would work better?

 

[rowport]

Now, this is weird. I did some googling, and found an example Shadowdancer character on the WOTC web site. While Mark's rules-fu above sounds solid, the character description here seems to contradict it entirely. (It is based on the 3.0 version of the class, but should still be relevant to the Shadow Jump ability.) Here is the text:

"Ryershil always makes best use of his abilities, but really comes into his own in the third version presented below. One of his favorite tactics is to combine his shadow jump ability with spring attack and the haste ability of his monk's belt. He rushes a target from a shadow, attacks with his dagger of venom, runs into another nearby shadow, and uses his shadow jump ability to jump to another shadow nearby before the target can react. It's a very effective combination for killing, provided the dagger of venom is effective on the first strike."

Here is the link to the page:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20000101e

Does this change anybody's opinion about using Shadow Jump with Spring Attack?

 

[Deset Gled]

Does this change anybody's opinion about using Shadow Jump with Spring Attack?

Nope. The example is just wrong. It happens a lot at Wizards.

 

[Corsair]

Nope. The example is just wrong. It happens a lot at Wizards.

No, it is 3.0 Haste that is the problem.


* The character starts hidden in a shadow.
* Character does a spring attack, attacking enemy, and retreating to the shadow.
* Using the extra partial action granted by Haste, the character Shadow Jumps away


It helps to read the entire sentence.

 

[rowport]

OK, thanks for all replies! Well, now understanding how Shadow Jump works, combined with the severe limitations on Shadow Companions from 3.0 to 3.5, I have now concluded that Shadowdancers are *way* weak. Fortunately, I have time to rebuild my character progression (he is only level 3)!

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

EDIT: Nevermind.