Shadowdark Shadowdark Discussion Thread [+]

[Reynard]

Isn't it amazing how quickly adventurers recover from seeing their friends get eaten? Hardy lot, those adventurers. Stiff upper lip and all.

Again, anyone who goes into dungeons looking for loot is certifiably insane. Completely bonkers. Nutso.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I like Kelsey's Paladin but I can also see why it leaves some people cold. I think part of the problem is that some of the OG Paladin classes were overpowered compared to the basic fighter, often offset by differential experience. You can't do that with a SD class.

Yeah, Gygax's notion of balance was built around the (obviously untrue) idea that everyone was going to roll in the open and take whatever class that they could get. Since it was so hard to qualify for a paladin, there would be fewer of them, so it was OK in EGG's mind to make them clearly too good.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

But I must admit there more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the classic paladin just doesn't fit the game and Kelseys version is quite fitting for the game.

I think that people who really want to play an AD&D paladin in the OSR space are better off with something like Mythic Bastionland, which is built around that style of play.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Isn't it amazing how quickly adventurers recover from seeing their friends get eaten? Hardy lot, those adventurers. Stiff upper lip and all.

We really need a full Darkest Dungeon OSR RPG.

 

[Mannahnin]

Isn't it amazing how quickly adventurers recover from seeing their friends get eaten? Hardy lot, those adventurers. Stiff upper lip and all.

Again, anyone who goes into dungeons looking for loot is certifiably insane. Completely bonkers. Nutso.

I did initially suggest in the montage that she might have taken a week or two at least in mourning before the guild was trying to get her back in the saddle. But yeah.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Yeah, Gygax's notion of balance was built around the (obviously untrue) idea that everyone was going to roll in the open and take whatever class that they could get. Since it was so hard to qualify for a paladin, there would be fewer of them, so it was OK in EGG's mind to make them clearly too good.

Which...unless one completely rejeccts that philosophy...fits with Shadowdark character generation, too.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Which...unless one completely rejeccts that philosophy...fits with Shadowdark character generation, too.

Well, you can play any Shadowdark character you roll in any class, even if they will suck at it. That wasn't true in AD&D -- a truly bad character didn't even have options other than, as I recall, thief. (Which is hilarious, given how bad thieves were at everything at low levels -- it was basically a death sentence.)

And Shadowdark explicitly tells you to reroll the absolutely worst characters rather than wasting everyone's time with playing them until they die in the first combat situation.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Well, you can play any Shadowdark character you roll in any class, even if they will suck at it. That wasn't true in AD&D -- a truly bad character didn't even have options other than, as I recall, thief. (Which is hilarious, given how bad thieves were at everything at low levels -- it was basically a death sentence.)

And Shadowdark explicitly tells you to reroll the absolutely worst characters rather than wasting everyone's time with playing them until they die in the first combat situation.

I mean more, for example, how the Paladin depends on all the same stats as a Fighter (e.g. Strength and Con, and hopefully not a low Dex) but also has abilities (or an ability) keyed off of Charisma.

It's perfectly valid to say, of course, that being lucky enough to roll well on multiple stats is enough of a reward and a player with that luck doesn't also need a more powerful class.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's perfectly valid to say, of course, that being lucky enough to roll well on multiple stats is enough of a reward and a player with that luck doesn't also need a more powerful class.

Yeah, I think that's how most people view balance, 50 years after Gygax, especially given that stat bonuses are such a key component of D&D and its cousins nowadays, whereas they were mostly nice to haves back in the day.

 

[Mannahnin]

I think that people who really want to play an AD&D paladin in the OSR space are better off with something like Mythic Bastionland, which is built around that style of play.

I think playing a paladin-type/on tactical hard mode does have its place as a niche in the OSR. The OSE Advanced Knight class is this, and the Paladin to a lesser extent. Both are deliberately written to be more playable than the 1E equivalents, of course.

Mythic Bastionland is a whole different type of game, though I agree that it's an awesome choice if the kind of fantasy you want to play is journeying on knightly and mythic quests, rather than dungeon crawling verging on survival horror.