Shadowdark Shadowdark Discussion Thread [+]

[Mannahnin]

From Sage Advice

View attachment 434598

Cool. So that's Crawford confirming that Mearls came up with it, and related it to the Avenger mechanic.

Advantage/Disadvantage is still a different and much broader rule concept, IMO, and that's part of why we started seeing more RPGs/OSR games and gamers talk about it and borrow it once 5E existed (even if Chris Mehrstam had the concept in print first).

 

[darjr]

Cool. So that's Crawford confirming that Mearls came up with it, and related it to the Avenger mechanic.

Advantage/Disadvantage is still a different and much broader rule concept, IMO, and that's part of why we started seeing more RPGs/OSR games and gamers talk about it and borrow it once 5E existed (even if Chris Mehrstam had the concept in print first).

Many other older games has similar things, sure.

However the biggest example I know of is Shadowdark and it was borrowed from 5e.

 

[Fenris-77]

Many other older games has similar things, sure.

However the biggest example I know of is Shadowdark and it was borrowed from 5e.

So yes, this is true, but by the time SD borrowed it that mechanic had spread to all kinds of games and well outside any basic 5E corral.

 

[Bill Zebub]

So yes, this is true, but by the time SD borrowed it that mechanic had spread to all kinds of games and well outside any basic 5E corral.

I may be wrong that Mearls gave TOR credit but it did exist in TOR as a general mechanic, before 5e.

 

[Reynard]

Regardless of its origins, I think it is pretty clear that Adv/Dis in Shadowdark came straight from 5E. That's fine. You can totally acknowledge your inspirations when making art. One of my favorite things about Daggerheart is how open it is about its influences.

That said, Shadowdark managed to hit a sweet spot where it married Old School and Modern play, and I think that's why so many people move to hack it to do whatever the thing is they really want. Shadowdark isn't necessarily good for all those ideas, but it doesn't hurt to try.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Regardless of its origins, I think it is pretty clear that Adv/Dis in Shadowdark came straight from 5E. That's fine. You can totally acknowledge your inspirations when making art. One of my favorite things about Daggerheart is how open it is about its influences.

That said, Shadowdark managed to hit a sweet spot where it married Old School and Modern play, and I think that's why so many people move to hack it to do whatever the thing is they really want. Shadowdark isn't necessarily good for all those ideas, but it doesn't hurt to try.

Sometimes when I read about what people are doing to Shadowdark it causes me physical pain....

 

[Reynard]

Sometimes when I read about what people are doing to Shadowdark it causes me physical pain....

Why? Ramp up HP, add a couple Power-Up house rules and viola -- Shadowdark but Big Fantasy.

I don't put much stock in OSR/grimdank play. I mean, if people like that, awesome -- have a great time! But lots of dead PCs does not, in my experience, make for a more enjoyable game.

When I run SD at cons, I tend to give folks max HP at level 1 and be generous with Luck. That is all it takes to turn it into a fun experience without all the cruft of modern RPGs.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Why?

Oh, partly I was just trying (and failing) to be funny.

But some of the changes I hear people making, in order to make SD more like 5e, do make me wince.

 

[Retros_x]

For example, let's say PCs are at sea, on a ship that's trading cannonball barrages with an enemy ship. In D&D, a PC might reasonably take a direct hit from a canon and not have any injuries. Conversely, some PCs have attacks that could effectively disable an entire ship rather easily.

How does that play out in Shadowdark?

Similar to every other game that is not a war game - however you want, because this is outside the intented design scope. I could homebrew you a ships cannon that kills PCs in both SD and DnD 5e even if it doesnt make sense. Although I think a higher level DnD character SHOULD survive a direct hit by a cannon, but that is a different discussion. SD characters on the other hand don't scale as high as DnD characters, they do not become demigods at max level (which is only 10, not 20 + they don't get CON MOD added to their max hp on level up)

If you want good (naval) warfare systems, I think neither Shadowdark nor DnD 5e are the games for you.