Shadowrun: Which Edition to use?

[Derren]

Back to Shadowrun: So, instead of being fully immersed in a VR environment, deckers now basically only view the matrix using a kind of HUD?
That's probably a clever move, allowing the decker to participate in the real world action, as well, but it's quite far from the original Cyberpunk vision.

They can do that. But they still can fully immerse themselves into the Matrix, too and as you can imagine that makes them much more effective there at the expense of not being able to act in the real world.

 

[Abstruse]

They can do that. But they still can fully immerse themselves into the Matrix, too and as you can imagine that makes them much more effective there at the expense of not being able to act in the real world.

It gets even better. There's basically two modes when hacking, AR (Augmented Reality, the HUD display you were talking about) and VR (Virtual Reality, where your meat body goes completely limp and your entire consciousness is in the Matrix).

Now, within VR, there's two modes - Cold Sim and Hot Sim. This is something that's been in the game since the Virtual Realities 2.0 soucebook for 2nd Edition. Sim = Simsense, the way that computer systems are able to deliver sensory information directly to the brain (watch the movie STRANGE DAYS if you want to know what Simsense is like). Cold Sim means that the levels of interface with the brain are within tolerance levels. Hot Sim, on the other hand, means that the simsense link is beyond the limits and it gives you a MUCH faster response time in the Matrix (it's the digital equivalent of having Wired Reflexes: 3, your initiative is boosted through the roof).

Here's the kicker...in previous editions, every decker/hacker used a Hot Sim all the time because it meant you got massive bonuses. In SR5, though, there's a BIG drawback to using a hot sim because every bit of damage that you experience is PHYSICAL damage rather than stun. And yes, that INCLUDES DUMPSHOCK. So it's now incredibly dangerous to go with a hot sim in SR5, but it still has some amazing benefits.

 

[MortonStromgal]

That sort of brings us around to an interesting sub-question.

Assume that I've got a whole stack of books for 2nd edition Shadowrun. Why should I invest in 5th? What specific changes are attractive?

So 2e is my favorite by far even rules wise here are some reasons you may want to go to 5e

1. 2e books are falling apart? Feel the need for dead tree?
2. Some of the more famous fans of the 2e era are freelancers on 5e so there are several things you will find more familiar than moving to 4e
3. Your playing with new people and need to move to a more strait forward system than cross referencing three chapters with a terrible index to find out how to fight a particular paranormal critter.
4. You never liked rule X (I'm pretty sure whatever it is has changed by now)
5. I don't know that the new rules are more streamlined than whatever house rules you have come up with over the years but die rolls are quicker because you rarely roll 6s again.


There are also plenty of reasons not to but you asked why you would want to move

 

[Jhaelen]

4. You never liked rule X (I'm pretty sure whatever it is has changed by now)

Hrhr, now that's a convincing argument

 

[jeffhartsell]

I like SR5 rules so far. I have SR3 and SR4 as well. We started playing Missions season 2 with SR4A a few months ago and now we are switching to SR5. I agree with Abstruse that SR5 is better than previous editions.

 

[thewok]

Back to Shadowrun: So, instead of being fully immersed in a VR environment, deckers now basically only view the matrix using a kind of HUD?
That's probably a clever move, allowing the decker to participate in the real world action, as well, but it's quite far from the original Cyberpunk vision.

Sort of, yes. The problem with AR, though, is that you're working at meat speeds. With enough cyberware, this isn't a huge problem (though you'll never be as good in AR as you are in VR), but, until you get that insane cyberware (or if you're a technomancer), then AR hacking is horribly inconvenient and time-consuming. So, you still get the tension of the VR session. Your hacker goes limp and you have to protect the body while he/she's doing his/her thing. But, AR hacking is possible.

The problem with SR4 is that it's extremely easy to make a powerful mundane hacker since hacking used program + skill rather than attribute + skill. Simply buy a powerful enough program, or even get a suitably powerful agent, and hacking can pretty much do itself. Your basic stupid troll Street Sam who dumped Logic at creation could still be a superb hacker with high-rated programs and a skillsoft. Scriptkids were highly possible characters.

The upside is that in SR4, hacking became integrated with combat. They standardized the rounds and initiative passes with meat combat, so that it's easier to integrate the hacking run in with the combat going on outside. You no longer had to divide the session up into "decker time" and "everyone else time." Everything could happen simultaneously, which kept everyone involved at the table.

SR5 still has wireless, but they've brought back the decker, though new cyberdecks look more like ipads than keyboards. And hacking is no longer script-kiddy-friendly. You have to have the mental capacity and skills to hack, rather than just buying programs. The programs help, but they don't do the job for you anymore.

And to clear up the earlier thing about the dice pool for hacking, hacking into something is two different actions now, depending on how you want to do it. One emphasizes Attack and one emphasizes Sleaze. It's Logic either way, but the limit and skill change. Brute Forcing with the Cybercombat skill (and Attack limit) will allow you to do damage to the device, but Hacking on the Fly with the Hacking skill (and limit of Sleaze) allows you to learn more about the device as you go. Your skill makeup and how you have your deck configured at the moment will play into how you go about hacking something. I like that. In SR4, I'd just drop into VR and probe the node until I found the flaw, then I'd thread up Stealth and enter. Easy administrative access after a few hours of fairly risk-free stuff. Those days are gone now.

 

[Derren]

Easy administrative access after a few hours of fairly risk-free stuff. Those days are gone now.

Not to mention, as soon as you do something illegal in the Matrix the clock starts ticking. And when it reaches 0 (or rather, 40) GOD finds you and they will HURT you with no chance of defense against them.