Shane Hensley comments on the RPG industry

[jasamcarl]

Bringing all this useless corporate knowledge to bear, but the term "monetary incentive" is a slight misnomer, unless the money to be gained is extremely substantial. In RPG design, this is not the case. As a rule rather than an exception, money is a hygenic (upkeep) factor, and without it motivation suffers; however, it is not a consistent motivator in and of itself. Far more important factors include recognition and job satisfaction.

Don't believe me? Check most management and business admin training courses. Strange as it sounds, money (however attractive) will not cause an employee or contractor to be more diligent with a long-term project.

That is not quite correct. This is when we get into the differences between economics and the technical aspects of business as seperate disciplines, but let me just say this; money IS the consistent motivator in the long run. Those who do not value tend to be hedged out eventually. The vague notions of job satisfaction and other such have historically been round about manners of compensation when wages are 'sticky' for some reason and are highly uneven in their effect.

As to your assessment of the rpg industry, i have no doubt that the traditional motivation of production has this so-called 'passion'. But, as ryand has stated, d20 is changing this, with its big name brand, DND, now being run as a CONSUMER-driven business. The pie is growing bigger and an increasing number of the new producers are apparently entering in large part because they see profit oppurtunities. They are likely to produce more d20 because they can now get more income to complement their 'luxery' work, attaining a higher level of utility in the process. The suits are winning, and thank god.

 

[jasamcarl]

You're being inconsistent. First you assert that the difference between good books and crap ones is overemphasized and sentimental on the part of game designers. Then you assert that the difference between good and bad products is sufficiently large that a designer would spend more time and effort on it.

Besides, people aren't as logical and foresighted as you assert. People spend more time doing things they like.

You obviously do not understand my argument. Your first assertion is correct, that 'bad' products, i.e. less marketable ones are produced because of sentimental instincts. The second one is pretty much a butchery of symantics; the difference in marketability between a good and bad product is such that there will be an incentive to put more effort, i.e. playtesting into it. What you fail to appreciate is that I understand that balance and other production values will effect income from a given book, but that the essential market the book is being written for should be a wide one for a book to be considered 'good', i.e. buyable for a large number of people. What you created was a false dichotomy.

 

[Lizard]

I waffled about ten times over whether or not to post this, since I really don't want to jump back into this mire, but I finally decided to go ahead. What's a little more muck?

Ok, I recognize that a _LOT_ of people feel that feats are a core part of d20.

(Rest deleted)

The problem, I feel, is not that "This deviates from other D20 rules" but "This deviates from other D20 rules seemingly solely for greater compatibility with TS SAS." There is a perception, however false it may be, that D20 SAS was created by taking the files for TS SAS and changing the minimal possible amount of text.

Mutants&Masterminds seems to change a great deal more of the core rules than SAS did -- a 'damage save' instead of hit points, for example. I will go out on a limb and say that M&M will be generally better received by the more vocal elements of the D20 community, because it will be perceived that the changes were made for the sole purpose of making a better D20 superhero game, not for the sake of compatibility with existing products.

The degree to which perception and reality overlap are, of course, anyone's guess...

 

[Oberton]

SAS, D20, OGL and Bill Gates

Hum, I just don't get the argument about SAS products. At the various game stores in New Orleans, I have never heard anyone complain about products that don't follow the letter of the d20 core system rules. Most people like to see a little variance in the games. This gives them ideas and such. I really think the argument or debate, if you will, is more a designer’s point of view not a consumers. In the end, all designers must please the consumer and SAS does seem to do this with their products.

Also, someone compared d20 to Microsoft earlier in this thread saying they (WOTC -- d20) will dominate the market. I as a professional software developer have been riding Bill Gates coat tails for sometime and thousands of other developers like me, have no problem with this. In fact we depend on Microsoft to continue to put out great products for us to support and add features onto… If we did not have a strong company like Microsoft to push product design and etc, we would all still be working on very hard to use machines and paying computer stores tons of cash to configure our machines, no matter what the UNIX crowd wants you to believe ( I am sure that will get a commit)... Bill has done us a big favor. I believe d20 has done the gaming community a similar favor and there is room within the system, be it d20 or OGL, for everyone to express their design ideas... Like the developers for Microsoft, the designers of d20 games will eventually dominate the market as long as they continue to produce great products for their system and like software developers, the community of game designers will have to learn to accept this inevitability…


Later and Game-ON

Oberton

 

[Piratecat]

Theuderic, if you aren't interested in participating in the industry discussion, please post elsewhere and don't muddy the thread. Thanks.

EDIT - I'm deleting the chaff from this exchange.

 

[Piratecat]

Ok, I have no clue why I'm bothering to post to this thread, especially this subject of the thread since people have made up their minds for or against SAS d20 already and nothing I say will change that....

Heck, no. For what it's worth, I haven't, yet. That's one of the reasons this discussion is so interesting.

- Piratecat

 

[ColonelHardisson]

SAS=Silver Age Sentinels, right? I kept thinking someone had done a Special Air Service d20 book, along the lines of Afghanistan d20.

I haven't made up my mind yet, either. I don't know much about it, truth to tell.

 

[Theuderic]

I don't know much about it, truth to tell.

Ah now we are getting somewhere. Just Joking

 

[Geoff Watson]

The problem, I feel, is not that "This deviates from other D20 rules" but "This deviates from other D20 rules seemingly solely for greater compatibility with TS SAS." There is a perception, however false it may be, that D20 SAS was created by taking the files for TS SAS and changing the minimal possible amount of text.

I think you are correct. Jeff has mentioned on the GoO boards that they made it as close as possible to the TriStat rules to save space when dual-statting supplements; and that most of the typos in the d20 book were due to copying straight from the Tristat manuscript.

Geoff.

 

[RodneyThompson]

And yet another perspective...

Keeping with the "discussion of the d20 system's affects on the industry" let me present the view of a new freelance writer. Note that I don't have any more authority here than a non-writer, I was just stating it so people know my perspective.

The d20 system has been, for me, all about possibilities. I now have a writing career with multiple sourcebooks written or pending because of d20. Before, there just wasn't the market for freelancers. Now, I can write and be published. It's an incredible feeling to know that someone might pick up my work and think it's worth some money, much less time and attention! Likewise, ideas that might not have gone beyond my gaming group will now reach thousands of people! I'm able to afford college this year because of my freelance writing -- if it weren't for the d20 system, I'd have had to take a year off to work in some other job in order to pay for another year of school. How cool is that? And yeah, it's a career now. It's something that I could concievably do for the rest of my life, whereas before my writing was little more than something to please people who found my website. I mean, does that not strike a chord with any entrepeneur out there?

Those that compare d20 to Microsoft (of which there has been thankfully little in this thread) would be more appropriate comparing d20 to Linux: open source, basic structure, distributed far and wide, and easily modified by developers. I think the OGL has done more FOR the industry than any other development in the last, what, 20 years? I've only been playing for around the last 15, so I'm not entirely sure. The fact is that it's moving products that would otherwise never see the light of day before it came around, and that can't be a bad thing to me.

The real question is: where do we go from here? I think if the software model teaches us anything, it's that we go up. I think as more companies use OGL instead of normal d20 (or, heaven forbid, open up straight d20 material to OGL) then we'll see a more free exchange of good, solid ideas. I mean, look at what's happening now. Soon I should be able to start up my own gaming company and publish PDF supplements for Mutants and Masterminds. Green Ronin makes more money off more core books being sold, I make money off of my work, and we're all happy campers. (Note: I'm not planning on doing that, just using it as an example). That's just amazing to me. It's nearing a free exchange of ideas on a platform that reaches a large audience....all the best parts of open-source software with all the best parts of broadly distributed software.

One final note. Recently, my normal gaming group has ended its Wheel of Time campaign and moved to what we call the Rotating Game Format. Each member of the group gets 4 gaming sessions to run convention-style one-shots using whatever game they want. This allows our group to try out all those ideas we've said "Well, wouldn't it be cool to run a XXXX game?" about. My turn is up next, and I'm running Metal Gear Solid using the Spycraft game. The guy before me ran Masters of the Universe D&D. One of the guys after me is going to run Mecha Crusade, and another is going to do Greco-Roman D&D. These ideas that are cool for quick games but not exactly what we want to invest campaign-level effort into are overflowing fountains of ideas and testbeds for new concepts. And we use d20, because we can switch games and genres with minimal effort. Rotating Game Format has allowed all of my gaming group the ability to strut their stuff without waiting until the current campaign of whatever game ends.

I'm all for d20. Solid system, solid success, solid OGL concepts.