Shapechange and abilities with saves

[James McMurray]

If a wizard shapechanges into a creature with a special attack that grants a saving throw, how is the save DC calculated?

• 10 + 1/2 caster's hit die + caster's relevant ability modifier
• don't calculate it, use the monster's base
• Its the same as the monster's DC except you use the caster's ability score instead of the monster's (in the case of mentl stats only of course)
• something else?

Thanks!

 

[Magic Slim]

I'd use the geometric average of the three methods proposed.

Seriously, I'd go with 1)

Slim

 

[gfunk]

[*]10 + 1/2 caster's hit die + caster's relevant ability modifier

This is the right one I believe. Fear my sorcerer/Bodak with a Death Gaze DC of 28!!!

 

[WingOver]

Hi. This is my first post so go easy on me.

Anyhow, I started analyzing the shapechange spell recently for an upcoming game and I'd like to comment on your post.

Look in the 3.5 MM for the proper ability score to calculate a monster's special attack DC. It is described under the attack listing of the associated monster. I would use this formula to calculate the DC, using the monster's physical stats (if Str, Dex, or Con based) or your own mental stats (if Wis, Int, or Chr based).

For example, under the Bodak's Death Gaze it states, "The save DC is Charisma-based." The formula appears to be:
[10 + 1/2 HD + Ability Modifier]

I'm unclear on whether the Character's level should be used in place of the creature's HD, or you just use the creature's HD. If you use the creature's HD, this opens it up to potential abuse because there's nothing stopping a 20th level caster from changing into a 27HD Bodak (max HD for a Bodak) for a Death Gaze base DC of 23 before the ability modifier is added. (It gets worse for creatures who can advance to 40HD).

As a side note, I noticed that the Iron Golem's breath weapon DC is Con based, which is odd since constructs don't have a Con score. So I suppose all Iron Golems have a DC 19, regardless of their size or HD.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I'm going to concur with WingOver. Use the same method of calculating the DCs as listed for the monsters.