sharing Alter Self with a familiar

[Hypersmurf]

As in my first post, I fall into the "separate variables" camp of interpretation. Having said that, how do people handle things like shared cure spells? Separate rolls for caster and familiar/companion, or one roll that applies to each?

You left out the horrid-horrid-horrid-oh-the-horridness Share Spells ruling from Tome and Blood.

If you Share a cure spell, you pick either the caster or the familiar. You roll once - say 1d8+5 for a CLW. The creature you picked is cured for that amount, up to its maximum hit points, and any points left over are applied to the other creature.

Ick! Ick!

-Hyp.

 

[Klaus]

You *can't* share Alter Self with your familiar.

From the SRD, under "share spells":

Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

Alter Self has a range of "You". So the master can cast it on his familiar, but not on himself at the same time.

If you choose to have Alter Self target your familiar, it can turn into any Magical Beast within one size category of itself (Diminutive to Small for the regular familiars), since its type before the transmutation in Magical Beast.

 

[shilsen]

You *can't* share Alter Self with your familiar.

From the SRD, under "share spells":

Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

Alter Self has a range of "You". So the master can cast it on his familiar, but not on himself at the same time.

Incorrect. The sentence you quote from the SRD is simply listing another option (hence the word "Additionally"). You can choose to cast a spell on yourself and have it affect your familiar as well. You can also choose to cast a spell with a target of "You" on just your familiar. Emphasis on "also".

 

[kigmatzomat]

Remember that the "Share spell" option only works while the familiar is close, like 5' close, so it's likely many shapechanges will be short lived.

 

[Rkhet]

Makes a handy mount, though.

 

[Klaus]

Incorrect. The sentence you quote from the SRD is simply listing another option (hence the word "Additionally"). You can choose to cast a spell on yourself and have it affect your familiar as well. You can also choose to cast a spell with a target of "You" on just your familiar. Emphasis on "also".

I stand corrected. I've been interpreting the Share Spells part (ever since I started playing 3e) as though you could share any spells with your familiar, except for "You" spells, which you must cast on your familiar only.

My wife and her Elven Cat (Small) familiar will be happy to know they can share Enlarge Person.

 

[Thanee]

I stand corrected. I've been interpreting the Share Spells part (ever since I started playing 3e) as though you could share any spells with your familiar, except for "You" spells, which you must cast on your familiar only.

I still think, that this is what they mean there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bront]

Even if she shares the Polymorph or Alter self, you still have this problem to deal with:

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires.

Which, strangely, applies to permanent spells too

 

[Bad Paper]

Apart from that, I agree with you. You Share the spell 'Alter Self', not 'Alter Self into Troglodyte'. I can Share a Magic Fang with my animal companion, affecting his bite attack and my claw attack. I don't need to Share 'Magic Fang: Bite', just 'Magic Fang'.

I don't see any reason why I couldn't Share a Fire Shield with my toad, giving myself the warm shield and him the chill shield version.

Alter Self can affect a magical beast (so the special provision is unnecessary); it just can't turn him into a troglodyte.

I don't like your Fire Shield interpretation. It seems that if I (player) cast Chill Shield, then my familiar automatically gets chill shield. I (dungeon master) wouldn't allow it to be split the other way.

The SRD is saying to ignore the type of the familiar (magical beast). If an Enlarge Person spell works by ignoring the familiar's type, then why would Alter Self behave differently?

We have all seen the renditions of wizard and familiar looking like two extensions of the same creature (e.g. the cover of Complete Arcane). When that guy turns into a troglodyte, his cat likely turns into a Tiny troglodyte, or at least a Tiny reptilian version of itself. Or, if we insist on making the spell as legal as possible, then the cat turns into a Small troglodyte (within one size of itself, yet a stubby trog, to keep within Alter Self's limits.

 

[Thanee]

Which, strangely, applies to permanent spells too

What's strange about that?

It's just the spell you cast on yourself, which applies to the familiar as well, whithin a very close distance. Like the familiar is within the spell's aura or something like that, but there is no additional spell cast on the familiar. Once the familiar leaves the 'aura', the spell stops affecting it. The permanent spell is still permanent, tho.

Bye
Thanee