D&D 5E Shatterspike in 5E: breaking an enemy's weapon

[Prakriti]

In Tales from the Yawning Portal, an enemy wields Shatterspike, a weapon that always critical hits against objects. In the encounter, we're told that the wielder "uses Shatterspike to destroy his foe's weapon."

Now, I would LOVE to do this, because it makes the encounter way more interesting. However, you know what will happen. As soon as the players claim Shatterspike for their own, they're going to want to do this ALL the time. After all, what's good for the goose (DM) is good for the gander (players).

So...

How would you handle this in 5E? Or would you just ignore the encounter text and rule that sundering weapons is impossible?

(Note: The AL has already ruled that magical weapons cannot be destroyed in this way, so don't worry about that. This is a low-level adventure, so we're talking about replaceable, mundane weapons.)

 

[Goober4473]

In my own conversion of this adventure a while back, this is what I came up with for Shatterspike, since there's no standard "sunder" option.

Shatterspike (Rare). Taken from a dead paladin in the Sunless Citadel, Shatterspike is an heirloom of another age. It a +1 longsword, and on a hit, the wielder can choose to break an item instead of dealing damage. On a critical hit, the wielder can choose to both deal damage and break an item. The item must be held or obviously worn. Armor and large pieces of clothing cannot be targeted in this way. A non-magical item or a common magic item is automatically destroyed. A magic item that is Uncommon or higher gets a DC 10 Charisma save to resist. If it is not intelligent, it uses its wielder's Charisma bonus (if positive). Rare items get +2 to this save, Very Rare get +4, Legendary get +6, and Artifacts are immune.

It worked out quite well. One player kept it through level 20, ultimately exchanging it for a scimitar of speed found in Nightfang Spire, but keeping it for utility purposes like smashing locks. It was a lot of fun.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

I like the above suggestion. Fortunately, however, the problem is more or less self-control Ling even with no changes. Keep in mind a player spending attacks to destroy enemy weapons is basically no different than doing the same to disarm them...and both actions means trading the chance to do damage to the enemy for a chance to reduce its offense. The enemy can still attack back while they attack the enemy's weapons. Most experienced fighters would carry a backup blade, so it would be reasonable to give monsters backup weapons. If they run out of weapons? Have them try to grapple the player with the shatterspike and tear the weapon from the players hands! Or trip them and run. Hell, some monsters like ogres or giants could just rip a tree out of the ground and boom: instant club.

 

[pukunui]

The item must be held or obviously worn.

I'm going the opposite way in my thinking, namely that you can only target an object that is *not* being carried or worn. That seems to fit better with 5e's paradigm about no harm coming to anything someone has on their person (as ridiculous as that might be).

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

Could we add to the weapon's rules something like:

- On a natural roll of a 1, the Shatterspike breaks, rather than the targeted weapon/object.

 

[Guest 6801328]

In the intervening 3 months, has anybody come up with a good interpretation for this? How should I run this encounter so that it's fair to the players when they are fighting against Braford, and fair to my monsters once they have it?

 

[Tony Vargas]

In the intervening 3 months, has anybody come up with a good interpretation for this? How should I run this encounter so that it's fair to the players when they are fighting against Braford, and fair to my monsters once they have it?

Having played in a 3.x campaign where a PC still had Shatterspike at 13th level, and had even taken Sunder to use it better, it's really wasn't that big a problem, most of the time.

Tons of monsters don't use weapons, at all, so it's a non-issue in all those encounters. Some of those who do will just be mooks you can drop with a hit more readily than sundering their weapons. More powerful weapon-users can carry multiple weapons to the point that repeatedly sundering or disarming is a waste of time (and, in the case of enemies specifically out to get the party with said famous weapon, probably will do just that). And, of course, the party will be reluctant to destroy magical weapons that they hope to claim. If magic weapons are invulnerable, as in AL, important weapon-using enemies can have 'magic weapons' that aren't PC-usable, due to alignment or allegiance requirements, too.

 

[thethain]

I used the statistics for objects which are available in the DMG and Basic rules.

Most weapons would be Iron therefore have an AC of 19 (wood has ac of 15) and as small resilient items have 10 HP. Which means shatterspike with even a +1 strength mod will break 1h weapons in a single hit, which is pretty cool. And reasonable as it still needs to hit AC 19.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Having played in a 3.x campaign where a PC still had Shatterspike at 13th level, and had even taken Sunder to use it better, it's really wasn't that big a problem, most of the time.

Tons of monsters don't use weapons, at all, so it's a non-issue in all those encounters. Some of those who do will just be mooks you can drop with a hit more readily than sundering their weapons. More powerful weapon-users can carry multiple weapons to the point that repeatedly sundering or disarming is a waste of time (and, in the case of enemies specifically out to get the party with said famous weapon, probably will do just that). And, of course, the party will be reluctant to destroy magical weapons that they hope to claim. If magic weapons are invulnerable, as in AL, important weapon-using enemies can have 'magic weapons' that aren't PC-usable, due to alignment or allegiance requirements, too.

Thanks for the response, Tony.

I really meant "what are the rules for trying to break an opponent's weapon?" Is this specifically defined in the PHB?

 

[Guest 6801328]

I used the statistics for objects which are available in the DMG and Basic rules.

Most weapons would be Iron therefore have an AC of 19 (wood has ac of 15) and as small resilient items have 10 HP. Which means shatterspike with even a +1 strength mod will break 1h weapons in a single hit, which is pretty cool. And reasonable as it still needs to hit AC 19.

That seems a decent system. So the player specifically targets the weapon, and then just applies normal damage with an auto-crit (when using Shatterspike).

 

[Tony Vargas]

I really meant "what are the rules for trying to break an opponent's weapon?" Is this specifically defined in the PHB?

No, nothing like that. There's a disarm rule hidden somwhere, though you could use that, and roll the crit damage vs the weapon instead of disarming.

As long as it ends up looking like the dojo scene in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, should be fun...

 

[thethain]

No, nothing like that. There's a disarm rule hidden somwhere, though you could use that, and roll the crit damage vs the weapon instead of disarming.

As long as it ends up looking like the dojo scene in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, should be fun...

There's actually 2 disarms. The Battle-master Fighter version and the DMG Variant version.

 

[jgsugden]

I'd keep it simple. On a crit, Shatterspike breaks an opponent's non-magical wielded weapon. A broken weapon becomes an improvised weapon. Magical weapons are exempt. It can also be used to attack objects and automatically deals max crit damage on a hit versus an unwielded object.

 

[Tony Vargas]

There's actually 2 disarms. The Battle-master Fighter version and the DMG Variant version.

The latter, obviously, since anyone might pick up Shatterspike.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I'd keep it simple. On a crit, Shatterspike breaks an opponent's non-magical wielded weapon. A broken weapon becomes an improvised weapon. Magical weapons are exempt. It can also be used to attack objects and automatically deals max crit damage on a hit versus an unwielded object.

That's simple and clean, but it's also entirely a passive bonus at that point. I like giving players interesting decisions, and forgoing a damaging attack to break a weapon is an interesting trade-off to make.

I think I'll go with the AC 19, 10 points of damage (for regular 1H weapons; increasing HP for larger ones). I do wish there were something "official" though, even if only in Shatterspike's description.

EDIT:

It did just occur to me that the player who will most likely get it (assuming they survive....mwuhahahahaha...) is a Fighter planning to go Battlemaster. So I can either use Sunder or invent a maneuver for this.

 

[pukunui]

I've ended up turning Shatterspike into a sword of sharpness without the limb-chopping bit. The light is a bonus because I'm running the adventure in FR, so Sir Braford is a paladin of Lathander.

 

[David Warburton]

I do wish there were something "official" though, even if only in Shatterspike's description..

sorry for the lateness but for posterity I'll say that these *are* the official rules, but they come from the DMG not the PHB. Look in chapter 8, page 246 for a section called "Objects". That's where the earlier poster got 19 AC and 10 HP.

 

[David Roshon]

sorry for the lateness but for posterity I'll say that these *are* the official rules, but they come from the DMG not the PHB. Look in chapter 8, page 246 for a section called "Objects". That's where the earlier poster got 19 AC and 10 HP.

While the object rules from the DMG are a good reference it is specifically for unattended/inanimate objects. I would suggest something halfway between that and the disarm variant. Such as, make an attack roll against the target's Dexterity (Acrobatics) check then deal damage to the item using the object chart for it's hit points. The DM can then determine that the broken weapon might be usable as an improvised weapon of a reduced die type. A longsword for example could become an improvised shortsword which could then be broken again into a dagger.

 

[24Fanatic365]

I just received this weapon last night in my regular local game shop game. As a level 3 barbarian, I don’t see myself using it to break any objects other than the occasional stubborn door the party may come across. Any other time I use this weapon, it’s gonna be to do as much damage as possible to whatever creatures we’re fighting at the moment. It makes a great replacement to my greataxe that was broken earlier in the encounter that I received the sword in. Just my $.02, whatever that’s worth!


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[Sword of Spirit]

The DMG has rules for breaking objects. The AC in those rules assume you easily strike and instead determine whether you do significant damage rather (it says so), kind of like heavy armor. However, with an attended object it ought to be harder to pull off. 3e would have you make multiple rolls to handle that mess, but 5e doesn’t do that. If you want to feel like 5e, you need a ruling that doesn’t add rolls. Since the AC number actually matters (it’s what separates adamantine from wood, for example) you shouldn’t ignore it.

5e would probably suggest attacking an object according to the DMG rules, but applying disadvantage when the object is worn or carried.

It’s also worth noting that adamantine weapons now have the same property as Shatterspike according to Xanathar’s.