shield vs +3 mithral buckler

[silentspace]

It's a bonus type that modifies an attribute of a creature or item. That attribute may itself be a bonus type.

A belt of giant strength gives you an enhancement bonus to your strength attribute.

Boots of Striding and Springing give an enhancement bonus to your speed attribute.

A magic shield has an enhancement bonus to it's AC attribute.

huh? you're confusing me more. forgetting about "attributes", is it a bonus type?

if you wear bracers of armor +4 and +2 studded leather, what's your armor bonus? what's your armor enhancement bonus (if such a thing exists)?

 

[Sejs]

is it a bonus type?

Yes.

if you wear bracers of armor +4 and +2 studded leather, what's your armor bonus? what's your armor enhancement bonus (if such a thing exists)?

It's +5. Studded leather has an armor bonus of +3 normally, and this particular suit of studded leather has a +2 enhancement bonus, which increases the armor bonus provided by the studded leather from +3 to +5.

The +5 armor bonus provided by the studded leather +2 is greater than the +4 that would be provided by the bracers, so you take that.

 

[silentspace]

let's say you have bracers of armor +4, +2 studded leather

what happens when you cast magic vestment (with a +3 enhancement bonus)
1 - on your studded leather
2 - on your bracers of armor (if that is possible)
3 - on your suit of regular clothing you wear over your studded leather?

 

[Sejs]

let's say you have bracers of armor +4, +2 studded leather

what happens when you cast magic vestment (with a +3 enhancement bonus)
1 - on your studded leather
2 - on your bracers of armor (if that is possible)
3 - on your suit of regular clothing you wear over your studded leather?

1) Magic Vestment (+3 bonus) on Studded Leather +2. Studded Leather now uses the larger enhancement bonus provided by the spell, effectivly becoming Studded Leather +3. Total Armor Bonus: +6 (+3 armor bonus from studded leather, +3 enhancement bonus to the armor).

2) Doesn't work. Magic Vestment only works on a suit of armor, shield, or regular clothing - the bracers are not a valid target. Total Armor Bonus: unchanged by the spell.

3) You'd probably wear the clothes under the studded leather, but makes no difference. Your regular clothes, as per the spell, would be treated as a suit of armor with no armor bonus. The spell would grant them a +3 enhancement bonus. Total Armor Bonus: +5 from the Studded Leather +2. Studded Leather +2 is providing a +5 armor bonus, the bracers are providing a +4 armor bonus, and your Magic Vestment-ed t-shirt is providing a +3 armor bonus. You only benefit from the highest one, which in this case comes from the studded leather.

 

[silentspace]

ok cool

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Cheaper depends on the cleric and how much RP the wizard is willing to perform. Can you say, "Join me for services tomorrow at Dawn to worship the great Pelor and I'd happy to cast magic vestment on your buckler."

This could work both ways:

Fighter: "Are you willing to abandon your weak god and worship Tempus the Warlord henceforth? No? Then I cannot help you get out of the grapple with that orc barbarian, poor cleric"
Wizard: "Admit that the gods are false, and that arcane power triumphs over all, and I'm glad to cast fly on you so you won't drown in a minute when the water goes over your head."
Rogue: "Did you hear that 'click'? You've managed to hit a preassure plate, priest. I reckon that as soon as you take that foot away, the whole ceiling will come crashing down, robbing you of your third spatial dimension. But if you would be so kind as to sign this contract to help me steal all the artefacts from your church, I might give you some pointers about surviving this particular trap."
and so on

I'd rather say that these people are a team and will work together without one forcing the other to abandon their deities.

In our last campaign, there actually was a player whose priestess often demanded from others to change their faith in order to be healed - it was a pain in the lower back. She was a frickin' half-drow priestess of Eilistraee, not really appropriate for an elven bladesinger, for example.
On the other hand, that player cannot help but play power-hungry maniacs, no matter what he plays. Him playing cleric was a real bad move (he whined every time he was asked to heal someone because it took away his precious spells and demanded we get healing potions)

 

[Felix]

[hijack]

This could work both ways...

Yeah, but there is an element of proselytizing in the cleric class that there isn't in the other classes. I mean, the god that gives the cleric powers gets his own power from worshippers... so I think it'd be kinda silly to have a cleric that didn't try to convert those he was closest with. After all, they're his buds, and he wants them to go to their rich reward after they die, right?

But I know it can be overdone too.

[/hijack]

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Yeah, but there is an element of proselytizing in the cleric class that there isn't in the other classes.

Not necessarily. He doesn't have to take the agressive approach, either. "Convert or I don't help you" might even let the priest fall from grace.

I mean, the god that gives the cleric powers gets his own power from worshippers...

That isn't a given, either (though many campaigns do it that way).

so I think it'd be kinda silly to have a cleric that didn't try to convert those he was closest with. After all, they're his buds, and he wants them to go to their rich reward after they die, right?

Right, they're his friends. Not helping them just because they don't want to convert isn't the thing friends would do. In fact, it may very well the things ex party-members would do ("So you want us to convert to your stupid deity just so you pull your own weight around here? Get lost, spell-beggar, we'll get a decent priest. Let's see how you can serve your god when you're running around alone, unable to survive in the wilderness, in dungeons, or anywhere else.")

 

[Infiniti2000]

This could work both ways: ...
I'd rather say that these people are a team and will work together without one forcing the other to abandon their deities.

The problem with your examples, however, is that they are life and death. I am certainly not advocating withholding cure and similar spells needed save my comrades and forcing them to worship my deity. Water breathing, etc. might all be necessary for survival. On the other hand, giving up a third-level spell slot, permanently, so that the wizard can have a +n buckler requires something significant in return. How often does the wizard plan to be in melee?

So, do you think the cleric should happily give up a 3rd-level spell slot, permanently, to cast magic vestment on the wizard's buckler everyday? It might make more sense to do it on the fighter (e.g.), but even then it's asking a lot.

 

[Felix]

Not necessarily.

What is a priest for if not the maintainence and spread of his religion?

Not helping them just because they don't want to convert isn't the thing friends would do.

And yet the party relies on the good graces of a deity as well as a cleric to heal them up every day... is listening to the cleric proselytize such a price to pay?

You know that I am agreeing with you that it can be overdone, like if a PC demands gold for each spell cast. Or by refusing Cure Minor Wounds to a dying comrade because he likes that-god-over-there. But healing is one of those miracles (in the RL sense, not the spell) that priests would use to convince folks that their god is the One, so it follows that a priest would prefer to keep the healing for his flock and those who are furthering his god's ends.