Shifter PrC (MotW) & Epic Feats

[Hand of Vecna]

I gotta go with Hypersmurf on that one...

 

[Veldrane]

It's quite obviously like that.. ..the Regeneration entry in the special abilities doesn't talk about gaining the Regeneration ability after having sustained some damage; that is correct since monsters either have or haven't the ability.
Anyway, we have three sources of Regeneration in itinere: the closest to Regeneration Ability is Monstrous Regeneration, a spell from MoF. Being a spell that begin in a given moment, it's obvious that damage sustained before that moment is not converted to subdual. However, it is stated that when the spell ends, all subdual damage is converted to normal damage. That is a statement, and that can be applied also to a Shifter that changes shape.
The second source is the Ring of Regeneration, that works in a way similar to regeneration ability. It is clearly stated that "only the damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated", so, if we were to apply this to a Shifter, we would rule that when you shift into a troll, if you were 30 points below your max hit point value, that damage is not converted to subdual.
The third source is the Regeneration chain of spells, from Masters of the Wild. Granted, this bestow the fast healing ability, still is specify that "the healing applies only to damage sustained during the spell's duration, not to that from previous injuries".

Given that reference, I think we can be quite sure that:

• When you shift into a form with regeneration, damage you already sustained remains normal damage.
• When you shift out of a form with regeneration to a form that is immune to subdual damage, your subdual damage is converted to normal damage before you gain the immunity to subdual damage, so it is, again, considered normal damage.

 

[Hardhead]

And, of course, you can always just shift into a form with Fast Healing, since Regeneration doesn't work. It's no biggie.

 

[Veldrane]

And, of course, you can always just shift into a form with Fast Healing, since Regeneration doesn't work. It's no biggie.

Of course..

 

[thol]

elementals

here's another question.

take an Druid18/Shifter10.

from his Druid class, he gets Elemental Wild Shape 3/day, in which case he is an elemental in all respects.

from his Shifter class, he gains the ability to Greater Wild Shape as many times a day as he desires. he also has the ability to change into an elemental (without the Su abilites).

does the 3/day limitation from his druid apply to the full elemental shape? does he need to take Improved Elemental Shape [Epic] to get it unlimited times per day?

can he use his Colossal wild shape ability from Shifter to become his a colossal full elemental?

 

[Dark Dragon]

Just some clarification: Druids have NO HD cap for assuming a wild shape form but a SIZE cap (depending on their level of druid or shifter). See the wild shape description in MotW.

Wizards and sorcerers (and other classes using Polymorph self) have a HD cap...

So it seems that druidic shifters could get powerful forms more easily than arcane shifters.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Re: elementals

here's another question.

take an Druid18/Shifter10.

from his Druid class, he gets Elemental Wild Shape 3/day, in which case he is an elemental in all respects.

from his Shifter class, he gains the ability to Greater Wild Shape as many times a day as he desires. he also has the ability to change into an elemental (without the Su abilites).

does the 3/day limitation from his druid apply to the full elemental shape? does he need to take Improved Elemental Shape [Epic] to get it unlimited times per day?

can he use his Colossal wild shape ability from Shifter to become his a colossal full elemental?

The limit does not apply, IMO. The shifter may get the best benefits from his base class (in this case the druid) and the PrC.

So, the epic elemental shape is not needed to become an elemental unlimited times per day.

Last question: a shifter (lvl 10) may take the form of a gargantuan creature (not colossal), e.g. an elemental.

 

[wolff96]

Just some clarification: Druids have NO HD cap for assuming a wild shape form but a SIZE cap (depending on their level of druid or shifter). See the wild shape description in MotW.

Wizards and sorcerers (and other classes using Polymorph self) have a HD cap...

True, but the Shifter PrC specifically DOES have a HD cap on Greater Wildshape.

And "The Trick" of combining the non-HD limited druid Wildshape with Greater Wildshape has been ruled illegal by the Sage.

So the Shifter, no matter how you enter it, is HD limited.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Hm, that contradicts the description of GWS to get the benefits of BOTH classes (druid / shifter)...
Any reson for that ruling?

Ok, it prevents some powergaming (taking the form of a primordial elemental...wait, a druid (level 24? not sure) with Improved elemental shape and Colossal shape could take it )

 

[thol]

Re: Re: elementals

The limit does not apply, IMO. The shifter may get the best benefits from his base class (in this case the druid) and the PrC.

So, the epic elemental shape is not needed to become an elemental unlimited times per day.

if this is true, it gives you 4 levels back to use for another prestige class. (17-20th level of druid need not be taken, and as long as you get a +1 existing spell level class you'll get 9th level spells.