Shop -Thread

[Velmont]

For teh stealing, I would see only these two possibilities:

1. Player runs shopkeeper, player runs thief
3. Player runs shopkeeper, DM runs thief.

For the first case to happen, the player must tell if he allows thievery in his shop when he buy it. Once chosen, he cannot change his mind. Just because he has a valuable rare item in his shop, some may change his mind. Personally, I don't mind a PC that come stealing Rinaldo, but he will have to pass his guard and may finish in a cell, but that's the risk a robber must take...

For a DM runs a thief, it could be a good possible adventure. In that case, it would not be up to the player to allow or disallow, but to the Judges. It would make a good way to prevent abuse. After all, more you are rich, more people see you as a nice target...

 

[azmodean]

For the first case to happen, the player must tell if he allows thievery in his shop when he buy it. Once chosen, he cannot change his mind. Just because he has a valuable rare item in his shop, some may change his mind. Personally, I don't mind a PC that come stealing Rinaldo, but he will have to pass his guard and may finish in a cell, but that's the risk a robber must take...

The problem with this is includes PvP combat, which is possible, but so far the judges have said they don't want it.

For a DM runs a thief, it could be a good possible adventure. In that case, it would not be up to the player to allow or disallow, but to the Judges. It would make a good way to prevent abuse. After all, more you are rich, more people see you as a nice target...

In this case why aren't other PCs subject to pickpocketing and such? They have just as much potential to gain money as a shopkeeper does. That's a rhetorical question, the reason is because it is annoying and frustrating, and serves no good purpose. If there was an adventure that included a theft from a shop then it might work out fine, but only if the shop owner gives their permission. I certainly wouldn't make use of a shop proposal that included the option for someone to try to steal from my character without my permission.

 

[LogicsFate]

The problem with this is includes PvP combat, which is possible, but so far the judges have said they don't want it.

Though I haven't been around for long it's seems that the rule is PvP doesn't happen unless both parties agree to it. If the shop keeper would like the challenge and agrees like it as he/she is opening their shop...

 

[azmodean]

hmmm, I perhaps misunderstood. That would make it ok I guess, though I personally would opt out.

 

[Manzanita]

I don't know that the profit question has really been adequately addressed. How about something like this.

Rinaldo's shop sells a certain amount of items to NPCs at a reasonable profit. This profit happens to exactly equal the rent, employee pay, city taxes, maintenance, etc. Thus all sales to PCs are at whatever profit negotiated. Perhaps sales to NPCs could be considered at some level of profit related to his Trader level and skill ranks. Since time is so fudgy in this world, we should probably just make it based on real time. Say a certain profit per month. This would minimize extra work by judges and DMs.

 

[Velmont]

Rinaldo's shop sells a certain amount of items to NPCs at a reasonable profit. This profit happens to exactly equal the rent, employee pay, city taxes, maintenance, etc. Thus all sales to PCs are at whatever profit negotiated. Perhaps sales to NPCs could be considered at some level of profit related to his Trader level and skill ranks. Since time is so fudgy in this world, we should probably just make it based on real time. Say a certain profit per month. This would minimize extra work by judges and DMs.

I see four situations in this:

1. Buying to NPCs to sell to NPCs
2. Buying to NPCs to sell to PCs
3. Buying to PCs to sell to NPCs
4. Buying to PCs to sell to PCs

We suppose that 1 is the main market of any shop. That should be handle by the Job System. So, any profits made in that case would be determine by the Job System. If the job system is not approved, it could be considered that the case number 1 make just enough for maintenance, pays, taxes... and earn no progits.

For case 2 and 4, there is not much problem I can see. I would says that all profits go directly in the character's pocket.

For case 3, it is not interesting for most people, except the Trader, as anyone can sell to NPCs for the same price. Traders are the exception. Traders have a potential to sells to 90% of market value instead of 50%. That's mean a Trader can potentially have 40 % of profits on the market value of items he buy to PCs and sells to NPCs.

To make things simple, I would simply add these two things:

1. No items with market value over the present market limits can be sold outside adventures. During adventures, it will be up to the DM to tell if such buyers exist.

2. A character cannot possess more than X gp worth of possession. That's mean both from his equipement and items sold in his shop. That limts could be something like two or more times the suggested starting equipment value of a character of his level. As characters are regulary watch over (at least once per level), it could be easily controlled, and it would not burden much more the judge's job. If a judge sees any offence, he can decide that the player lose X gp worth of stock. This could come from taxes, stealing, fire in his shop, ect...

 

[El Jefe]

2. A character cannot possess more than X gp worth of possession. That's mean both from his equipement and items sold in his shop. That limts could be something like two or more times the suggested starting equipment value of a character of his level. As characters are regulary watch over (at least once per level), it could be easily controlled, and it would not burden much more the judge's job. If a judge sees any offence, he can decide that the player lose X gp worth of stock. This could come from taxes, stealing, fire in his shop, ect...

Um, but what about characters who amass that much wealth just through adventuring? True, the judges ought not allow a GM to award that much, but it's possible.

Basically what I think we all really want is to allow PC traders to amass a little more wealth than other characters in exchange for a little less xp per time spent playing, or perhaps a little more wealth at the same XP level, in exchange for burning a feat. So long as it pays to be a merchant, but doesn't pay too much, everything works fine.

 

[Velmont]

Oops, forget to precise for my #2, that is considering only the cash won outside adventure. But it's true it is hard to retrace the money origin...

 

[IcyCool]

Here's a suggestion, why not separate the gp of the shop from the gp of the character? That way, the shop has a running total profit for itself, representing the cash on hand to buy used items from characters. The shopkeeper isn't allowed to use this money to purchase equipment for his character, as it represents his "nest egg". Perhaps allow it to be used to purchase a home or other shops (or fancy jewelry, fancy clothing, or other purely decorative items). The shopkeeper can make back his initial investment (so his wealth level doesn't go crazy), and the rest stays invested in the shop. This way the character can be a member of the rich elite, but not be imbalanced when it comes to adventuring.

 

[azmodean]

I still don't see where any of this derives from the idea of the shop itself. It does not allow you to do anything you can't already do, except for the money derived from the job system, which is still not part of the shop proposal, but rather part of the job system proposal. From what I see, all the shop does is give you permission to start your own thread to sell items instead of cluttering up the RDI thread with it. Am I missing something?