Shopping as an encounter

[nomotog]

The idea/question I am posing to all of you is what if shopping had more depth and mechanics to it. Has anyone done anything like this?

I'm thinking maybe a system where the merchant would have different powers and abilities that effect the shop, the items and the prices. Like an elf merchant would only sell wooden items and charge a higher markup to orc players. Then maybe a thief merchant would have a secret stock that can be found with a search check.

I understand this idea is still rather ruff. It's been awhile sense I did anything with D&D, so I ask you bare with me.

 

[Morrus]

I used to toy with that sort of thing long ago; 20 years ago, in fact. I don't any more.

For me, at least - and your mileage may indeed vary - this isn't really much fun for the players. Things like this, detailed encumbrance systems, tracking wealth to the copper piece or ammunition or rations to the last item, or punitive alignment systems. You should see some of the deviously complicated subsystems I devised!

I realised eventually though that for me, these things were only satisfying my - as the DM - sense of .... I hesitate to use the words verisimilitude or grittiness, but something in that line. What they didn't do is make a better game, or a more enjoyable game; in fact they detracted from the fun parts.

But everyone's different. I think you would need to talk to your players and see if that was something they wanted too. If everyone's on board for that level of detail, then go for it. But I feel a conversation beforehand could avoid some mismanaged expectations of a game.

That's not to say that some shopping expeditions can't be fun encounters. Certainly some could and should. I feel that's best handled by mood-sensitive improvisation rather than any kind of system. I've had some excellent 45 minute shop encounters which have been funny and memorable, but that's because they're rare and were improvised at the time. Far more mileage can be wrought from an amusing NPC than from a shopping system. You can't do tha every session - it makes it mundane - but once every so often, when the group's in the right mood, and so are you - just make it up as you go along and hope you can stop laughing long enough to get some words out!

 

[nomotog]

No players yet. I am just toying with the idea for now. My intent wasn't to add verisimilitude or grittiness. The idea behind the idea was to add another avenue for the players to face challenges and advance in. To put it another way, I want to include non combat encounters and figured that shopping would be an encounter that pops up with enough regularity to be worth investing in.

Thanks for the insight. It's rather easy to see that you have had more experience with this and I appreciate the help.

 

[HoboGod]

I'd have to agree with Morrus, there's no gain by complicating the mundane aspects of D&D with charts and dice. Let role play enhance those things. If your goal is to award experience points in non-combat situations, just award ad hoc experience points for the things they're already trying to do: getting richer. All those jewel heists and theatrical begging attempts that net them a few extra gold coins in their purses should also net them minor experience rewards.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This really depends on your players, IME. The last campaign I ran, several times, the shopping/gearing up for an adventure took most of an evening.

Not because I was formally & intentionally running each shop visit as an encounter, but because my players really wanted to haggle & shop. Well...most did- 2 players had a problem the 3rd time this happened. After that, I actively tried to balance things out more. Still, when you have players asking questions and generally having fun, it's hard to stop. I did, however, try to ensure that the non-shoppers had something to entertain them.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Would the players gain XP for doing this?

I could see, hypothetically, being in a party very close to leveling, having just finally slogged our way out of a dungeon or having wrapped up a quest and this particular idea being the last thing we do before dinging to the next level... and that being very satisfying indeed.

 

[Samloyal23]

A non-combat encounter can be a puzzle of sorts, you have to game the rules to win something in addition to just buying stuff. Say you want to buy some armour. Sure, you can have an inventory set up that says what the shopkeep has for sale, that's a good place to start, and you can use your Diplomacy and Bluff to haggle down the price. But maybe what you don't know is that the owner used to be an adventurer who face the BIG BAD you are about to go hunting and he knows exactly the right suit of armour to keep you from getting gutted. He might tell you what you need to know or he might push you to buy a more expensive suit that will give you a nice AC bonus but not that one type of resistance you need to face this enemy. It all depends on whether or not he knows what quest you're on and if he thinks you're a hero or a douche. So you have to haggle but you also have to actually talk to the guy and get to know him as a person, not just some nameless NPC...

 

[kitcik]

We refer to PvP, which occurs very rarely, as "shopping."

For instance, if I decide to attack Belgar, who is in my party, I would say "I am going shopping at Belgar's."

 

[James the Newbie]

Well, shopping as an encounter is in some respect ok, but if players want to haggle to lower item prices, which I agree isnt unreasonable, I would suggest that you come up with a very quick and simple system, measure their diplomacy/bluff check and change the modifiers based on how you consider their lie, against the shop keepers, and maybe add or remove 1-10% per difference of 5 on the die

Remember, at high levels, they will be buying high level gear, with high stats and getting 20 above a shop keeper is easy, allowing them maybe 4% off of a 100K item, that is 4k in gold saved

I wouldnt allow it due to balance issues if I was you.

 

[nomotog]

For discounts, I was thinking they would be a fixed amount based on the amount of exp that would be based on how hard they are to obtain. I'm thinking it whould be 1\12 the gold and experience awarded for defeating a monster of the level of the merchant.

I'm thinking I was to go ahead and write up some rules. I know most people say it's a bad idea, but I kind of want to take it to the end and see what it looks like.

What I have now. All merchants start with a level. (I'm also thinking that higher level merchants would end up being supernatural like angels or demons.) All merchants have limited inventory based on there level. Something like 5-10 items of the quality you would find on a monster of there level. (That number might be too low.) For stats, I am takeing a book from 4e and just assigning them levels in spot, listen, sense motive, diplomacy, Edit: bluff. (Can you think of any other skills a merchant might need?) And then assigning them cool things that they can do or that the players can do to them.