[short rant] My only beef with EPIC...

[MerakSpielman]

I like the high-level rules, though there are some problems. In general, the rules are fine with me.

But WHY THE HECK is everything named just like it was in the core books, but with the word EPIC tacked on to the front? Is this just a total lack of creativity?

Almost every feat and magical item suffers from this!

I can almost update my 17th level character's equipment list to an epic list just by putting "Epic" in every item name.

I'm sick and tired of reading through that book and every tenth word is Epic! Epic! Epic! It ain't that great of a word. They could have left it on the cover, and maybe in the intro a few times, but I swear they use it more often than they use the word "the."

[/rant]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled messageboards.

 

[Mortaneus]

Same thing with the word 'Vile' and the BOVD.

 

[Mulkhoran]

I have to say, that while you're absolutely right on the creativity angle, it does help with rapid character development. If you have a high-level character you've been moving along a certain path, it's nice to be able to find feats that are natural extensions of that path by just glancing at the rather large list.

Same with items, although I find it more annoying here than in the feats dept. Just my $.02.

 

[chatdemon]

Hey, it's better than 1337

I agree though, the Epic stuff seems very uninspired overall, excepting perhaps the magic system, which I still haven't set about completely deciphering.

Vile Darkness was neither as vile or as dark as I had hoped, but at least it wasn't just a phb on steroids like epic was.

 

[seasong]

The magic system is okay, although it is too easily broken, IMO. One of the first things I did was see what it would cost to make a spell that had a small XP cost, and how high I could pump AC with it if the spell duration was permanent... +37 or so, right off the bat, more if you have a really insane spellcraft.

The GM will have to check every single epic spell and be very firm with the "no" word to make it work - and if you say "no" too much, even to obviously broken stuff, the players stop feeling like their epic, and more like they're in 1st grade.

Hard to fix, that.

 

[Forrester]

Re the Epic casting -- still, at least they tried. You can tell they tried, and it's in general a neat idea, the "seeds" and such.

Compare and contrast to the uber-retarded ECL rules in Savage Species, which aren't worth spit for even the most basic monster races. They shouldn't have even bothered. They should have just said "Hey, find Soldarin's site on the web, use that."

But the Epic Spells . . . well, I've seen evidence that they can be abused, but it seems they gave it the ole college try.

 

[MerakSpielman]

The magic system is okay, although it is too easily broken, IMO. One of the first things I did was see what it would cost to make a spell that had a small XP cost, and how high I could pump AC with it if the spell duration was permanent... +37 or so, right off the bat, more if you have a really insane spellcraft.

The GM will have to check every single epic spell and be very firm with the "no" word to make it work - and if you say "no" too much, even to obviously broken stuff, the players stop feeling like their epic, and more like they're in 1st grade.

Hard to fix, that.

of course, each of these spells puts the caster back a huge chunk of gp and xp... When they have 10 nifty EPIC spells, but are 4 levels behind, they have to start wondering... and they can't even cast more than know:arcane/10 of these spells every day. Also, the EPIC spells/day rules use knowledge ranks, not modifier. So those nifty magical items increasing the skill won't work to get more EPIC slots.

And increasing a mage's AC by 30 or 40, even if it IS permenant (remember it's not going to stack with any of the same types of bonuses), ain't that much at EPIC levels, when critters have attacks like +60/+55/+50/+45. You're almost better off just casting Blink, at least then they miss an even half of the time.

 

[Ashardalon]

One of the first things I did was see what it would cost to make a spell that had a small XP cost, and how high I could pump AC with it if the spell duration was permanent... +37 or so, right off the bat, more if you have a really insane spellcraft.

Are you sure about that? Remember that the order is: Factors, then multipliers, and then mitigating factors (Many of the Epic Spells are calculated wrong).

Maybe you could post the math?

 

[seasong]

When I get home this evening, I'll post the math. I may have gotten it wrong, which would certainly be nice .

 

[Mortaneus]

of course, each of these spells puts the caster back a huge chunk of gp and xp...

For a way around this, I suggest taking a look at the Rod of Excellent Magic. Sacrificing it (see the second power) is a great way to get around those monumental XP costs. For epic characters, the cost of the rod is pretty small by comparison to the xp cost of epic spells.