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Should 4th ed be point and level based?

JoeGKushner

First Post
Warbringer said:
I don't know about "points" per se, but along the lines of True20 every level gets a new feat and you can essentially spend it as you choose.

That actually would work in a way too, but I'm seeing some things even more free form. One of the great complaints against D&D for example, is that you can't just be a summoner like good old Elric. You automatically gain access to a whole host of other powers. You'd never core classes that were even more "generic" than those in Blue Rose or Unearthed Arcana.
 

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JoeGKushner said:
I'm not saying eliminate levels. I think levels can act as a good cap of what you can do or what you should be able to do.

Having said that, I think a point buy system would be better if combined with levels. Unless I'm misremembering things, Mutants & Masterminds does this no?

I'm all for that and trying to tinker something together like that, based on True20.

I've always enjoyed games that combine level and point buy, like Rolemaster and Earthdawn. You get to decide more or less what you want to increase, level determines when you get to doit, by how much you can do it and what you can increase.

I think that a truly level and point buy d20 game would be heaven sent. So +1 BAB costs so many points, one feat that much, +1 save this and so on. Each multiple of one levels points would equal 1 CR. Sort of like GURPS d20 ;)
BESMd20 tried, but didn't do it for me. So now I'm tinkering...
 

frankthedm

First Post
Don't forget good old elric was helpless without his drugs & then stormbringer. Honestly I think a 2E WoD:Fantasy Setting using Freak Legion for powers & taints would have been suited well for Elric, even more than Chaosium's BRP.
 

Psion

Adventurer
JoeGKushner said:
Would D&D be better off using levels as a tool in terms of how many feats, hit points and skills you can have, and using points to buy those things?

No, I don't thnk so.

There are point based systems out there, and even those have limitations and are very "gameable". Having classes improves the manageability of characters and character concepts.

Now, having a design system to create new classes might be do-able, and could aid in developing balanced classes. But it would still be a target for min/maxers and as such should be purview of the GM.
 

frankthedm

First Post
Take a look http://64.17.155.164/2e_files/MM2eCh1.pdf

TRAIT COST IN POWER POINTS
Ability Score 1 per ability score point above 10
Attack Bonus 2 per +1 bonus
Defense Bonus 2 per +1 bonus
Save Bonus 1 per +1 bonus
Skills 1 per 4 skill ranks
Feats 1 per feat or feat rank
Powers base cost × rank (see Chapter 5)
Drawbacks –1 or more points (see Chapter 6)
 

Tirlanolir

First Post
Why is this discussion thread happening? My brain will liquefy and run out of my eye sockets if ANOTHER edition of this crap comes out. I've spent way too much money......
 

I sorta agree with Psion.

Basically what I think could work would be a system that is, at its core, based around skill points and feats. You automatically get a bit of attack bonus, save bonus, and maybe AC bonus per level -- the so-called "Dude Factor," where even weaklings know a bit about being cool if they're high enough level.

Each level grants you one feat and, say, 8 skill points. You can build stuff free-form, sure, but there would be solid, clear examples provided: Classes.

Fighter -- Uses its feats for combat tricks. Uses its skill points for attack skills, defense skills, and various maneuvering skills. You'd want to trim down the number of skills available, and make them all pretty good, so that a fighter might be tempted to take, say, Acrobatics, instead of that extra rank in Grappling.

Rogue -- Uses its feats for trap-breaking, sneak-attacking, and Han Solo-esque tricks. Uses its skill points for a bevy of skills.

Wizard -- Uses feats to access different types of magic. Uses skill points to learn each type of magic. I'm basically going a very 'Mythic Earth'-style here, where you might take a feat for "Greyhawk Guardmage," which gives you the ability to spend skill points on Defend and Divination spells.

Cleric -- Like a wizard, but chooses different magical feats and focuses on fewer types of magic, but has more combat ability.

Barbarian -- Like a fighter, but doesn't waste feats on armor, and instead puts feats into reckless attack abilities.

Ranger -- A combination of rogue and wizard.



At the core of the system, it would be entirely free form, but there'd be 12 example paths that would form the iconic heroes of D&D. Barbarian, bard, cleric, druid, fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, swashbuckler, and wizard.
 

RangerWickett said:
At the core of the system, it would be entirely free form, but there'd be 12 example paths that would form the iconic heroes of D&D. Barbarian, bard, cleric, druid, fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, swashbuckler, and wizard.

RW, create this system and put it up for sale and I will give you my childrens education money!



:cool:
 



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