Magic Missile
First Post
I don't really see the problem with a 9th level cleric wiping out a score of peasants... even at 9th level, spellcasters are *supposed* to have nasty powers...
Should commoners (and everyone else) be a bit more durable?
- Thread starter Zogg
- Start date
Nifft said:
While I don't go quite that far when I'm a DM, that's pretty much how I work things. A first-level character is someone who's just barely trusted on his own. They're usually 14 to 16 year old kids (if human); any human who hasn't reached 3rd level (even if it's 3 commoner) by age 21 is probably an extreme slacker.
This also means, of course, that fighting the town guard is a bad idea for 1st-level characters; level 3 warriors are a bit tougher than level 1 fighters.
Pagan priest
First Post
I like the assumtion that the various NPC's will gain, on average, about 1,000 experience points per year. In practice, this means that the 10 year veteran of the city guard will be a 5th level warrior and the village elder (40 years old) peasant, bouncing a grandchild on his knee, will be a mighty 7th level commoner.
This prevents abuses like the mass cause light wounds while at the same time, commoners are still so weak (7th level average hit points: 18) they can be mowed down like wheat before the scythe. At 7th level, a commoner has saving throws (Fort, Ref and Will) of +2, proficiency in ONE simple weapon. A wizard could defeat one in melee.
Not giving the petty little NPC's these levels would mean that you've got to wonder how the race keeps from getting killed off by wandering monsters long before the first hero type could grow out of diapers to defend them.
This prevents abuses like the mass cause light wounds while at the same time, commoners are still so weak (7th level average hit points: 18) they can be mowed down like wheat before the scythe. At 7th level, a commoner has saving throws (Fort, Ref and Will) of +2, proficiency in ONE simple weapon. A wizard could defeat one in melee.
Not giving the petty little NPC's these levels would mean that you've got to wonder how the race keeps from getting killed off by wandering monsters long before the first hero type could grow out of diapers to defend them.
KnowTheToe
First Post
Flexor the Mighty! said:
What! I level all of my commoners. i just finished a city with 50,000 commoners. Sure it took awhile, but it really pays of in more vivid NPC encounter and experience
Two teenagers are playing in the backyard. One guy hits the other accidentally with a stick across the head and he falls down bleeding.
Assuming both are lvl 1 commoners. What is the chance he will live (without aid). Now the first kid is nonproficient with a club, and deals subdual damage, and still kills the second guy....
The point is, even a lvl 20 loremaster like Eric Noah, when shot with a crossbow bolt (1d8) will probably die without any sort of aid( heal checks, cure wounds...)
sorry for using you as an example. You are still god here...
Assuming both are lvl 1 commoners. What is the chance he will live (without aid). Now the first kid is nonproficient with a club, and deals subdual damage, and still kills the second guy....
The point is, even a lvl 20 loremaster like Eric Noah, when shot with a crossbow bolt (1d8) will probably die without any sort of aid( heal checks, cure wounds...)
sorry for using you as an example. You are still god here...
Imagine a 3 foot long sword. realize that a first level commoner can be stabbed in the gut with one and either survive or enjoy a painful death for quite some time. If the commoner survives, even from near death, he or she will be alright in maybe more than a week's time.
I think the low hp aren't so much a display of their lack of durability so much as they are a display of how far far durable someone with combat experience is. Me.. I'm pretty tough (at least when I flail about like KUNG FU KLUTZ MASTER! while alone in my apartment.. erm..wgha herm! I'm awesome!) but if some guy came in with a 3 foot blade and stuck me with it, I'd die quick. It really is more practical that way.
I think the low hp aren't so much a display of their lack of durability so much as they are a display of how far far durable someone with combat experience is. Me.. I'm pretty tough (at least when I flail about like KUNG FU KLUTZ MASTER! while alone in my apartment.. erm..wgha herm! I'm awesome!) but if some guy came in with a 3 foot blade and stuck me with it, I'd die quick. It really is more practical that way.
Gothmog
First Post
Realistically, humans are pretty dang hard to kill, barring injury to a vital area (head, neck, major artery, etc). Think of all the COPS episodes you have seen where some jackass got shot, and is up walking around, wanting to beat the guy that shot him to hell. While D&D hp are cinematic, problems arise when the PCs get high level and can bully around scores of 1-2nd level characters.
My solution was to give all creatures bonus hp based on Con and size. A character at 1st level or its 1st hit die gets a number of extra hit points equal to its Con x its size modifier. Undead are considered to have a Con score of 20 for these purposes. Sizes are listed below:
Fine, Dimunitive: x1/10th
Tiny: x1/4
Small: x1/2
Medium: x1
Large: x2
Huge: x4
Gargantuan: x8
Colossal: x16
Yes, this does mean that a great wyrm red dragon with a 25 Con will have an extra 400 hp, and that the average kobold will have 7-8 hp.
Also, to borrow a convention from D20 Modern, I use Massive Damage Threshold (MDT) rules. Anytime a character takes more damage in a single hit than his (Con score + BAB) x size modifier from the table above, he must make a DC 10 Fort save +1 DC for every 3 points of damage over his MDT or fall to -1 hp immediately and start dying. For example: a 6th level human rogue with a 14 Con has a MDT of 18, while a 5th level ogre barbarian has a MDT of 40. This represents a lucky blow that causes great trauma and takes the character out. So far, these rules have worked really well for our group, being fair and without complicating combat with WP and VP. The players seem to like it, and it does make combat a little more realistic.
My solution was to give all creatures bonus hp based on Con and size. A character at 1st level or its 1st hit die gets a number of extra hit points equal to its Con x its size modifier. Undead are considered to have a Con score of 20 for these purposes. Sizes are listed below:
Fine, Dimunitive: x1/10th
Tiny: x1/4
Small: x1/2
Medium: x1
Large: x2
Huge: x4
Gargantuan: x8
Colossal: x16
Yes, this does mean that a great wyrm red dragon with a 25 Con will have an extra 400 hp, and that the average kobold will have 7-8 hp.
Also, to borrow a convention from D20 Modern, I use Massive Damage Threshold (MDT) rules. Anytime a character takes more damage in a single hit than his (Con score + BAB) x size modifier from the table above, he must make a DC 10 Fort save +1 DC for every 3 points of damage over his MDT or fall to -1 hp immediately and start dying. For example: a 6th level human rogue with a 14 Con has a MDT of 18, while a 5th level ogre barbarian has a MDT of 40. This represents a lucky blow that causes great trauma and takes the character out. So far, these rules have worked really well for our group, being fair and without complicating combat with WP and VP. The players seem to like it, and it does make combat a little more realistic.
I am glad to see this thread! I didn't think anyone else much was biothered by the commoner HP thing
My solution (for the next game) was to use a mix of seankreynolds "level up" rules and a HP kicker like Gothmog does
The caveat is that these extra HP not in addition to regular HP. HP over the total are regular D&D HP, these are more like "wounds" from Ken Hoods Grim N Gritty system
My solution (for the next game) was to use a mix of seankreynolds "level up" rules and a HP kicker like Gothmog does
The caveat is that these extra HP not in addition to regular HP. HP over the total are regular D&D HP, these are more like "wounds" from Ken Hoods Grim N Gritty system
Green Knight
First Post
Another thing is that not every Commoner has to have average stats. Not everyone with good stats is an adventurer, after all. If some PC starts throwing his weight around, then maybe it's time for Olaf the 6th-level Commoner with a Str 18 to have some words with him.
first off, in my opinion, i belive that dungeons and dragons dont represent the process/journey that a NPC goes through to become an NPC. In Hackmaster, PC's are people who struggle and "fight/earn" their PC hood. also, every first level character starts off with a hitdice plus 20 hps. anyway, i think that it would be cool to start off with a couple of levels of commoner or something before adventuring. i think that (though many might disagree) this is a better representation of a persons journey through life. A person in an army or in a group of bandits arent usually going to be 1st level warriors, they are usually going to be at least experienced. anyway, i forgot what this post was originally about so im gonna shut up now 
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