D&D General Should D&D Be "Hard"

[Blue]

Hmm, difficult question to answer. Even ignoring table taste , you have to really define what “hard” means, and what one means by asking it.

Not trying to be pedantic (too late!), but I would actually rephrase the question more like, “How competent are the PCs, and how does that competency compare to the level of challenges expected to be experienced?”

No, I could not rephrase it like that, at least not without entirely changing the meaning.

Not that I think you are wrong, but that we interpret the question differently.

An easy game is easy. A hard game is hard. If the table wants a hard game, it doesn't matter if we have a bunch of casual players without particularly competent PCs and little party synergy, or it's a group of hard-core optimizers who have been playing together for decades and build awesome parties. BOTH games can be hard, and that's entirely unrelated to PC competency. Or both games could be easy.

It feels like you are trying to give soem absolute rating, which always is an approximation at best because no party is "average", such as someone rating a module that isn't being run or a computer game, while I'm talking about a running TTRPG game with a human DM.

 

[deganawida]

No, I could not rephrase it like that, at least not without entirely changing the meaning.

Not that I think you are wrong, but that we interpret the question differently.

An easy game is easy. A hard game is hard. If the table wants a hard game, it doesn't matter if we have a bunch of casual players without particularly competent PCs and little party synergy, or it's a group of hard-core optimizers who have been playing together for decades and build awesome parties. BOTH games can be hard, and that's entirely unrelated to PC competency. Or both games could be easy.

It feels like you are trying to give soem absolute rating, which always is an approximation at best because no party is "average", such as someone rating a module that isn't being run or a computer game, while I'm talking about a running TTRPG game with a human DM.

Thanks for explaining what you are asking. Apologies for misunderstanding!

 

[Blue]

There should always be the risk of character death. Permadeath....

Really? Had a teaching campaign years ago for my kids, nieces and nephews. They were attached to their characters and asked for no permanent deaths, so I put in other sorts of complications and problems when those sorts of things would otherwise happen.

Please tell me that it didn't happen, or that we were playing wrong. Please tell me that table wishes should never factor in, that there must always be a risk of permadeath.

You can say "I want a risk of character death at my table". Or even "most table seem to want X". But speaking in absolutes like "always" for your preference is just trying to say your way is the only right way to play. And that doesn't fly.

 

[Blue]

Thanks for explaining what you are asking. Apologies for misunderstanding!

Not a misunderstanding - your way is valid. We're just approaching "hard" from different sides.

 

[cbwjm]

How are these even options? You balance for the party your players are running.

"Hmm, I know my players have good synergy but are week at ranged and crowd control. Let me ignore all of that and balance toward some theoretical iconic party."

I nevebalance for my party beyond a general look at the expected challenge (easy, hard, deadly, etc), if the party is weak at range and crowd control, that never matters to me when designing the encounter, I just build an encounter that seems to make sense for the situation.

 

[Scribe]

How are these even options? You balance for the party your players are running.

"Hmm, I know my players have good synergy but are week at ranged and crowd control. Let me ignore all of that and balance toward some theoretical iconic party."

I took the OP as a question of 'you are balancing a game' as 5e has its own parameters of balance for example.

 

[Stalker0]

Personally I think the difficulty settings for encounters should just mean what they say on the tin.

I expect an easy encounter to basically be a cakewalk, people can just kind of clown around and make it through.

I expect hard to be....hard, aka if my players aren't bringing it they should expect someone to die.

I expect deadly to be...you know....DEADLY, I am assuming that someone is dying in this fight, and only expert play will prevent a TPK.

What I don't expect is for my players to walk through 3x deadly encounters with basically not a scratch on them (which they do commonly).

 

[Remathilis]

Not at all. It's the players' job to try to make things easier for themselves, regardless of how easy (or not) they already are.

In almost any situation in life, a typical person is going to be glad if something gets easier than it was and annoyed if it gets harder. That's human nature.

I mean, not always.

Again, looking at video games, there are plenty of players who opt to challenge themselves in ways the game itself doesn't. Speedrunning or randomizers are two good examples of people seeking challenges. Now, there are people who look to minimize risk, thats just smart play. But if your players are up for a challenge, then running games on "hard mode" is viable.

Its just something that the whole group has to agree on, not imposed by a DM.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, not always.

Again, looking at video games, there are plenty of players who opt to challenge themselves in ways the game itself doesn't. Speedrunning or randomizers are two good examples of people seeking challenges. Now, there are people who look to minimize risk, thats just smart play. But if your players are up for a challenge, then running games on "hard mode" is viable.

Its just something that the whole group has to agree on, not imposed by a DM.

Most of those people are individual bored experts looking for a challenge though. Not really the same thing.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Not at all. It's the players' job to try to make things easier for themselves, regardless of how easy (or not) they already are.

In almost any situation in life, a typical person is going to be glad if something gets easier than it was and annoyed if it gets harder. That's human nature.

And it's our jobs as DMs to stop that! We must protect the players from themselves!