Should Goliaths be ECL +2?

[Gnome]

It seems to be almost universally agreed that Goliaths are a strong ECL +1 race based on their strong stat adjustments (+4 STR, +2 CON, -2 DEX) coupled with their powerful build class feature.

Of those who have seen these guys in play, does anyone think they should actually be ECL +2?

 

[Dragon Snack]

I've seen 2 in low level games, both were killed (one lasted less than a session).

The stats and powerful build that make them good for a martial build didn't make up for the loss of HP from that lost level.

 

[brehobit]

I think they are strong for +1 ECL, but still reasonable. If you allow ECL buy-off it might be a bit too low.

Mark

 

[Quartz]

Reading here, they seem to be very popular. Perhaps that's an indication that they're underpriced? But I think I'd want something a bit more for LA +2 if I were playing one from scratch.

 

[pawsplay]

They are not underpriced, just unusually well balanced, likeable, and interesting for a +1 LA race.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

They are not underpriced, just unusually well balanced, likeable, and interesting for a +1 LA race.

I agree. The dwarven Hammer of Moradin (before the player contracted Purple Fever) kept up with my goliath warpriest pretty well.

Brad

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I think they are strong for +1 ECL, but still reasonable. If you allow ECL buy-off it might be a bit too low.

I would argue that any LA+1 is too low if you allow buyoff.

But for me the goliath is balanced and a good race, easily the best in the Races books.

 

[Wik]

Lesse. I allow LA +1 characters to be played as first level characters, and they just don't gain a level at first. We had two in our group.

The Goliath would deal a lot of damage, but quite often he'd be knocked into the negatives. Many fights consisted of the goliath dishing out a LOT of damage in the first and second rounds, and then a mad dash to save his life as he was at -7 HP with some vicious critter or another trying to gnaw off his leg.

Now, at 8th level, the goliath is a HUGE damage dealer with very little going against him. At low-levels, that LA is balanced... at higher levels, I'd say a +2 LA might fit the bill.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

+LA races tend to look on the weak side to me, unless the LA is <25% the character level.

A few stats and special ability are often weak compensation for the loss of the HD plus all those class benefits.

 

[Diirk]

Keep in that mind as Goliath's have a bonus to con as part of their stat adjustments, in the long run they'll have more hitpoints than other races, not less, even with the LA.

As for the story of the first level goliath that died quickly; well given that he has the approximately the same hitpoints as any other first level character that can be dismissed as poor luck and/or playstyle choice.