Should I play a Bard or Monk?

[EroGaki]

I could use some advice. I can't decide if I should play a Bard or a Monk in an up-coming Pathfinder game. I normally wouldn't even consider playing either, but I want to try something different, and I'm curious to see how effective the classes are in the beta.

My stats are 17, 16, 15, 15, 11, 11.

What do you think? I'm torn between the two. Any advice or ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[Wicht]

I would carefully read both entires, especially the class powers and see which one most vividly suggest a PC to you. If that doesn't work, go with Monk.

 

[exile]

Interesting question in that I have been wrestling with something very similar. I've been wanting to put together a Vudrani bard/monk multiclass character for a Pathfinder game. I was perusing Complete Adventurer in hopes of finding a feat that would optimize that build, perhaps allowing bard and monk levels to stack for the purposes of unarmed combat and bardic music. While there are similar feats for other class combinations, I could not find this one. Does anyone know if it exists and which source it might be found in?

Chad

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I would carefully read both entires, especially the class powers and see which one most vividly suggest a PC to you. If that doesn't work, go with Monk.

I've seen Monks in play, and I've seen Bards in play.
Both classes are mechanically weak, but Bards are way more fun. You get to do a lot of out-of-combat stuff, and in combat, you help others to shine. Inspire Courage and the rest of the bardic music abilities are really great.

As a Monk, you're torn between making full attacks (and getting hammered by the opposition) and way too often missing, or running around the battlefield with negligible effect. Nothing in Pathfinder suggests that his really changed, even if there are some extra options.

 

[EroGaki]

Personally, I'm of two minds about it. One of the reasons I'm interested in playing either one is the challenge making the class effective. I'm sure there are ways to elevate the Bard and Monk above their seemingly hopeless station as "mechanically weak classes." The problem, of course, is finding ways to do this. Of the two, I find that the Bard is easier to optimize; the monk, sadly, is more difficult. Lacking enough feats, monks become too specialized in one area (grappling, or tripping, for example) while suffering heavily in other areas.

Still, playing either class will more than likely be painful in the early levels.

 

[Wonka]

While I've read over and enjoy most of the Pathfinder RPG, Im kinda disappointed in how they did almost NOTHING to try and fix the monk. The Ki pool is a nice idea, however none of the other fixes do anything to address the real problems with the monk. It makes me sad because I want the monk to be a viable class able to hold its own, and it just didnt get enough to fix it, as almost nothing else changed. With that in mind, I would play a Bard, for the reasons Ridcully stated.

 

[CleverNickName]

I say monk. They aren't particularly effective strikers, so focus on being more of a defender: select feats and skills that improve your armor class, use a defending weapon, buff your Dex score, that sort of thing. Always fight defensively, and use the total defensive whenever you can. Consider taking the shadowdancer prestige class, if your DM will allow it.

Your job in battle will be to get between the enemy and your spellcasters. The enemy will waste a lot of time and resources trying to hit you, giving your archers and your spellcasters the time they need to take it down. So, with that in mind, be prepared to soak up a lot of damage...keep lots of healing potions handy, maybe a potion of rage or heroism, etc. And don't be surprised if you get knocked around A LOT at lower levels.

Monks are hard, but this is the most effective build I've seen in my gaming group.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Personally, I'm of two minds about it. One of the reasons I'm interested in playing either one is the challenge making the class effective. I'm sure there are ways to elevate the Bard and Monk above their seemingly hopeless station as "mechanically weak classes." The problem, of course, is finding ways to do this. Of the two, I find that the Bard is easier to optimize; the monk, sadly, is more difficult. Lacking enough feats, monks become too specialized in one area (grappling, or tripping, for example) while suffering heavily in other areas.

Still, playing either class will more than likely be painful in the early levels.

Well, our resident power-gamer did his best, and it just didn't work out.
(Well, actually, we are all resident power-gamers, but I think he is the best of us - interestingly, is also the best DM of us )

But I suppose that makes the idea of playing a Monk even better, considering that a success will be even sweeter.

CleverNicknames suggestion are probably not all that bad, but I don't feel like the Monk can survive it. If he really manages to attract his foes (and how will he do that - I suppose tripping is a good start, because it's _really_ annoying), he just doesn't have the AC or HP, especially not without sacrificing his chance to lure enemies into attacking him.

But really, if you go for Monk, I'd like to see the results (if successful. Otherwise, you don't need mention it ).

 

[CleverNickName]

CleverNicknames suggestion are probably not all that bad, but I don't feel like the Monk can survive it. If he really manages to attract his foes (and how will he do that - I suppose tripping is a good start, because it's _really_ annoying), he just doesn't have the AC or HP, especially not without sacrificing his chance to lure enemies into attacking him.

Hey, I said it was the "most effective" build that I've seen. I didn't say it was "good."

Monks are one of the weakest classes in the game, especially at low levels. A really high AC is about the only way to keep them alive...

 

[Starbuck_II]

Hey, I said it was the "most effective" build that I've seen. I didn't say it was "good."

Monks are one of the weakest classes in the game, especially at low levels. A really high AC is about the only way to keep them alive...

I still say if Pathfiner just gave the Monk full BAB, he wouldn't be as weak. Still not sure why that fix wasn't used.