Should I punish my players with a high CR encounter

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Very well done indeed. From your description of events, it sounds like a great session. I can see where the PC's are coming from with trying to keep the kids from suffering a fate worse than death at the hands of the demon. I may have done the same thing as a PC if I couldn't think of another way to keep the kids from its clutches and an eternity of pain and suffering. This gives you another hook as well, making them have horrid nightmares and whatnot for killing the kids even if done in the name of mercy.

You can definitely make this into a nice little campaign by itself or pull it all together with your other plots that are going on, maybe tie it in somehow with some other cultists or BBEGs who are summoning demons that are similar and the PCs have to figure out how to banish, kill, or contain the demons as well as stop the BBEGs or cultists from summoning more.

Thanks for letting us know how the fight went BTW, and keep us posted on how if they figure out how to get rid of the demon.

 

[rkarnes]

HOLY COW.

Hats off, sir, that sounds like a helluva session. You need to make sure there's some sort of lingering effect that they get from having killed those kids - and NOT necessarily a bad one. Do you have/can you reproduce an idea of which PCs killed how many of the little nippers? Those kids' souls might hang around in ghost form to help feed the PCs information about ways to defeat the demon.

I'd love it if at least some of the ghost kids continue to haunt the PCs even after the Demon is banished. "You did kill me, after all."

Anyway..... once more, that's AWESOME.

-rg

As for lingering effects; two PCs got bit by Chernabue, which makes them take 1 point of con damage and gives them orange boils on their skin, filled with an awful liquid. A quick heal check told them that when the boils burst in a few days, they will fall unconscious and experience hallucinations. Some have said that the hallucinations are prophetic. This is the "plot hook bomb" I placed on them. Soon, the cysts will pop, drop them unconcious, where they will have vivid dreams of the children being held prisoner in some ruins which I am sure they will recognize (and not cherish the idea of going there).

The party killed three out of 26 children. I think that there would be no ghosts*, but one of the NPCs husband was killed in a fight... that and the fact that the PCs killed so many children will color them in a bad way to her. Moreso, the wizard who ran away from the fight seems to have shouldered a lot of the party's blame. I think he will make an appearance in the future as a minor bad-guy so they can rectify a little of their guilt before rescuing the children.

*There will be no ghosts because I think that the group has done a great job of role-playing their grief without me forcing them to recognize what they've done. Killing the children was evil but justifiable, and I think it stained their souls in a way that a will deeply effect their characters.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

*There will be no ghosts because I think that the group has done a great job of role-playing their grief without me forcing them to recognize what they've done. Killing the children was evil but justifiable, and I think it stained their souls in a way that a will deeply effect their characters.

Cool, I'm glad you're thinking along these lines.

At the same time.... there are so many awesome things here. They killed three kids -- and three is one of those powerful numbers -- it's like they're feeding you plot points.

Hold onto the kids until you need something to help them. Just imaging them hanging around looking for an opening -- maybe a new magic sword becomes an intelligent magic sword, imbued with the personality of one of the children. Or maybe the kids hang around and each can save a party member from death once. The "haunting" doesn't need to be bad, after all. Maybe that's the payoff for their good roleplaying.

-rg

 

[The Red King]

Cool, I'm glad you're thinking along these lines.

At the same time.... there are so many awesome things here. They killed three kids -- and three is one of those powerful numbers -- it's like they're feeding you plot points.

Hold onto the kids until you need something to help them. Just imaging them hanging around looking for an opening -- maybe a new magic sword becomes an intelligent magic sword, imbued with the personality of one of the children. Or maybe the kids hang around and each can save a party member from death once. The "haunting" doesn't need to be bad, after all. Maybe that's the payoff for their good roleplaying.

-rg

You could have them help them, but harm them in not too bad ways. Like when they are sneaking you can hear a child say "Boo" or simple innocent things like that till they are laid to rest.

 

[N'raac]

The party killed three out of 26 children. I think that there would be no ghosts*, but one of the NPCs husband was killed in a fight... that and the fact that the PCs killed so many children will color them in a bad way to her. Moreso, the wizard who ran away from the fight seems to have shouldered a lot of the party's blame. I think he will make an appearance in the future as a minor bad-guy so they can rectify a little of their guilt before rescuing the children.

Why make the wizard a bad guy, rather than a man seeking redemption for a cowardly act (just as the PC's might seek redemption for the mercy kills, or might find their actions justified at a later date, or might even find some means to Raise the children in the course of future events).

*There will be no ghosts because I think that the group has done a great job of role-playing their grief without me forcing them to recognize what they've done. Killing the children was evil but justifiable, and I think it stained their souls in a way that a will deeply effect their characters.

At the same time.... there are so many awesome things here. They killed three kids -- and three is one of those powerful numbers -- it's like they're feeding you plot points.

Hold onto the kids until you need something to help them. Just imaging them hanging around looking for an opening -- maybe a new magic sword becomes an intelligent magic sword, imbued with the personality of one of the children. Or maybe the kids hang around and each can save a party member from death once. The "haunting" doesn't need to be bad, after all. Maybe that's the payoff for their good roleplaying.

I like the idea of using the kids in some manner - even if they are understanding of the PC's good intentions. This also prevents the PC's from moving on, and potentially focuses them on atonement for what can be viewed as an act as cowardly as the Wizard fleeing. What should he have done? Stood his ground and died? Perhaps raising the children requires a sacrifice which the wizard, in his guilt, undertakes. Maybe the wizard returns at a key plot moment to save the PC's, at risk or even cost of his own life.

I think you've got some great ongoing RP opportunities here. Good luck!

 

[rkarnes]

Why make the wizard a bad guy, rather than a man seeking redemption for a cowardly act (just as the PC's might seek redemption for the mercy kills, or might find their actions justified at a later date, or might even find some means to Raise the children in the course of future events).

I want him to be a bad guy, or at least a foil, for the time being, because I have already inverted expectations once recently. The party unanimously believes he's selfish and cowardly. I do not want the party to -always- be wrong. That being said, redemption could be a powerful motive for him. I do not anticipate him showing up in BBEG spiked armor and black shroud. No, I feel like he'd make a good "plug-n-play" minor villain for future plots. Having him waiting in the wings, ready to swoop in and save the day, sounds a bit too much like deus ex machina.

The players screwed up. The players need to fix things. No silver bullets.

I think you've got some great ongoing RP opportunities here. Good luck!

Thanks!

 

[Aberzanzorax]

If you need a model for a recurring coward...the movie Tombstone (also a fun watch btw) has one.

Man, even thinking about that guy is stirring me up.

 

[N'raac]

I'm not sure I see how "wizard flees rather than fight" leads him to an adversarial role with the party. Having his failure push him down, while the players' failure motivates them to greater heights, could make for an interesting contrast.

Have the PC's expressed any understanding that their failure to act quickly enough (from the original post) enabled the demon's release? Having the wizard throw that back at them ("If you had acted with dispatch, we would never have been forced to confront the foul beast") might set out his downplay of his own failings rather than trying to rectify their consequences.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

If you need a model for a recurring coward...the movie Tombstone (also a fun watch btw) has one.

Man, even thinking about that guy is stirring me up.

I'll be your huckleberry...

 

[rkarnes]

I'm not sure I see how "wizard flees rather than fight" leads him to an adversarial role with the party. Having his failure push him down, while the players' failure motivates them to greater heights, could make for an interesting contrast.

In my opinion it is simply a matter of varying the roles of the roster of NPCs. Originally, I had him as the role of "magic-item-provender" but now he is the "self-serving coward who abandoned his village to die under the heel of a demon while a group of would-be-heroes he had been condescending toward fights tooth and nail to rescue the children from unspeakable evil." Sometimes you have to invert expectations, and sometimes you have to play to expectations.

Have the PC's expressed any understanding that their failure to act quickly enough (from the original post) enabled the demon's release? Having the wizard throw that back at them ("If you had acted with dispatch, we would never have been forced to confront the foul beast") might set out his downplay of his own failings rather than trying to rectify their consequences.

They are aware it was a direct result of their dilly-dallying, yes. I think that having the wizard throw back the fact that it was their fault the demon was released would be an excellent thing to throw back at them. I intend to hold that NPC in reserve, though, so that when he does make an appearance, later in the campaign, it will be especially vindicating.