D&D 5E Should player's assume if it's in the DMG then it's RAW?

[Minigiant]

Here's how I believe.

A DM from the start must say which rules he is using, banning, and changing.

"My game is PHB with renaissance guns and explosives. Goblins are a race. X and Y archetype from Enworld are allowed. Firearms are 50% more. You can attune up to 1+Cha magic items. Magic items are harder to sell or buy because of this."

After statement, the player should be able to assume anything not banned or unnamed. In the above case, a player should not be able to assume to be able to carouse or craft magic items.

If the DM give no guidelines. The player can only assume PHB, all of the PHB, to their liking.

 

[TerraDave]

...

I mean, if a player asked whether you were going to use the 1-2-1-2 rule for diagonals, I don't imagine you'd be mad at them for looking in the DMG for a rule, right?

No, not if they ASK. If they just assume that something labeled as an option--as everything in that book is, repeatedly--was being used in play, then I would at least be annoyed.

 

[Mr0wlington]

Three words, one of which is super important.

Dungeon. Masters. Guide.

It's just a guide.

 

[TerraDave]

....

Pg. 136 of the DMG explicitly says that the rules for magic item selling are "one way to handle it." Pg. 128 specifies that the DM can make selling items available as an option. Pg 129-130 puts limitations on how and when an item can be sold. The book tosses complications like "you decide the identity of the buyer" (who might be shady).

If your player was reading the rules, they would have read that this is something that the DM can opt into, not something the game treats as a default.

....

5e is pretty good about calling things optional and pointing out what assumptions it's using and why. If your player doesn't quite get that, ask them to read more closely.

Selling magic items is in the "More Downtime Activities" section, which says in the opening paragraph:


So, by RAW, it's up to you whether selling magic items per the book is available or not.

....

Its good to see some people who have seen the actual book!

My point above was that everything in the DMG is like that. Explicitly. My challenge would be to anyone reading this would be to find a "rule" that a player could invoke that is not a DM option. There are arguably some borderline cases, in like 1 or 2 areas, but again, go ahead, find them.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Basically, should people just stay away from the DMG if they aren't DMing?

I had a player come to me about selling a magic item. He automatically assumed that all he needed to do was make his Investigation roll and then roll for days to find a seller and BAM, his item is sold. I explained to him that's not how it works in my world. "Well the DMG says XYZ", was the response I got and I told him he shouldn't assume anything he reads in the DMG is automatically RAW.

What do you think?

so what is your rule?

Player wants to sell item A (it doesn't really matter if it's a gold ring, a horse, a magic scroll/potion, or a +6 holy avenger) what did you tell the player he had to do to sell something?

 

[Warmaster Horus]

The only rules I know of in 5E are in the PHB. We've played for months using them without a DMG.

 

[I'm A Banana]

so what is your rule?

Player wants to sell item A (it doesn't really matter if it's a gold ring, a horse, a magic scroll/potion, or a +6 holy avenger) what did you tell the player he had to do to sell something?

For me personally, most of the time, can sell mundane items pretty easily (find a guy who wants a horse, sell it to him at half price, great), but for magic items, you just can't. Nobody who wants such a thing is going to be paying gold for it. It's in the market of favors and goal-oriented needs. If someone wants your +6 holy avenger, they'll be giving you something that's not monetary -- something special only they can do for you, something unique and beyond accounting for. While a fantasy version of Milton Friedman or something might be able to put a GP price on that exchange, that won't reflect the actual value the people are receiving from the exchange.

Like, say I've got a party of cads and bounders who have stumbled into a Holy Avenger in the ruins of an old temple. None of them are exactly the paladin-ing type, so they don't have much of a need for it, but they're also not the generous type, so "give it away to the nearest paladin order out of the generosity in your heart" isn't something they're interested in, either. So they don't want to just get rid of it, but they also don't really want to use it, and what happens then IMC is that I think about who would be interested in such a thing, and have them approach the party offering not gold, but some specific service or deed. Maybe in exchange for the holy avenger, a deva will hang out with the party for a day while they slay some demons. Maybe in exchange for that same weapon, a pit fiend won't utterly destroy you.

Magic items are stones in a pond in 5e as I'm approaching it. Toss one into your game and it'll cause some ripples.

There's nothing wrong with a game that says "+6 holy avenger = 200 gp, sell it at the nearest shop," either, though. Or one that follows the DMG guidelines for finding sellers of magic gear. I'm pretty cool with all that, but it's been a while since magic items have been non-commodities, so personally I'm excited about exploring that territory.

 

[Nebulous]

so what is your rule?

Player wants to sell item A (it doesn't really matter if it's a gold ring, a horse, a magic scroll/potion, or a +6 holy avenger) what did you tell the player he had to do to sell something?

He automatically assumed that all he needed to do was make his Investigation roll and then roll for days to find a seller and BAM, his item is sold.

I think he just said, "No, you can't do that." Rule Zero. I'd do probably do that too, but it depends on where they are. In the campaign I'm running now, if the players wanted to sell something magic in the one-horse town of Phandalin, sure they could try, but they'd get way below the value of the item because no one has thousands of gold pieces to spend. OTOH, if they were in Waterdeep, definitely, I'd let them try it. So for me it would be by the situation. In general, i do not like Magic Shops with swords hanging on the walls like guitars. It certainly has its place in a certain style of game, of uber-high magic, but that's not what I usually like to run.

But I also like the idea of low level consumables being more readily available than permanent magic items.

 

[JWO]

Oh I agree that communication is key but where do you draw the line? You can't really be expected to go through the entire book picking and choosing what to use and what not to. The minute you actually point something out that you won't be using then leads to you having to go through the entire book which is madness.

"My dearest players, please don't assume that we will be using any of the content in the DMG in this game. If you've read it and there is anything in it that interests you, please ask me about it and we can make a decision together as to whether or not it's appropriate for our campaign. I will also endeavour to let you know of any optional rules and house rules that I will be implementing."

I think that just about covers it...

 

[Hollow Man]

"My dearest players, please don't assume that we will be using any of the content in the DMG in this game. If you've read it and there is anything in it that interests you, please ask me about it and we can make a decision together as to whether or not it's appropriate for our campaign. I will also endeavour to let you know of any optional rules and house rules that I will be implementing."

I think that just about covers it...

This is effectively what I emailed to my players an hour ago. It seems that the 5e DMG contains a bunch of optional rules (unlike 1e, where a DM needs both the DMG and PHB to run a game), but it's best to point this fact out to everyone.

-HM