Should races have mechanical effects?

[Croesus]

Reading the thread on the latest Legends and Lore column, I began wondering: What if 5E offers races, but no mechanical impact of race?

By this, I mean that choosing a race would be strictly a roleplaying decision. No stat modifiers, no skill bonuses, no racial bonuses to hitting stuff with certain weapons.

To me, one of the design decisions I least liked about 3.x was exactly these mechanical differences. Too often players chose a race as part of a build, just to get a specific bonus, yet the resulting character never seemed any different from an identical build with a human.

By removing mechanical impacts, race is freed to be a roleplaying choice. If one wants to play the stereotypical tough dwarf, go for it - just assign the stats to fit that vision. But if one wants to play a dwarven wizard, that works too - your stats won't be any different, won't get in the way of having an effective character. And if the player really isn't interested in being an elf or whatever, choosing human doesn't matter (mechanically) either.

Acceptable? Or a deal breaker?

 

[Nivenus]

Well, that's a bit tricky, isn't it? As someone who thinks about the fluff first and the mechanics second, my inclination is to say "yes" because a lot of the races are significantly different enough from humans that you'd expect there to be a mechanical impact. Maybe not elves or dwarves, but halflings, dragonborn, or tieflings naturally stand out from regular humans in pretty obvious ways.

However, on the other hand, I do think the mechanical impact of races should be pretty limited. If D&D were sit in a specific fantasy setting with a small and easily manageable number of fantasy races (say, like Warhammer) then it would be reasonable to make races very consequential mechanically, since you could afford to spend the time and effort.

In a game like D&D, however, which had, by the end of 4e's first year alone, a total of ten fully supported races (dragonborn, dwarf, eladrin, elf, half-elf, halfling, human, tiefling, drow, genasi), with many quickly added thereafter, it becomes harder to justify making each one mechanically significant. But nonetheless, you'd expect a race that's made out of the raw elements or who's descended from dragons to have different abilities than a human, so simply getting rid of mechanics altogether is similarly hard to justify.

It's tough, to be honest.

 

[Tallifer]

I know that I put forward a very similar position as the original poster's in two other threads. But I started to think soem more.

I still dislike min-maxing for racial bonuses and feats. Eladrin Fey Chargers and Dragonborn Breathmarking Fighters, Deva "Chaladins" and Wood Elfin Battlefield Archers.

But the other solution is for the Fifth Edition to promote "refluffing/reflavouring" right from page 1. Tell the players and dungeon master explicitly and fromt he beginning, "These names and pictures and stories reflect the typical fantasy world or character, but if you want, just build an Eladrin Fey Charger and write Dwarven Cloudrunner at the top of your character sheet." That was after all how I played ny Genasi Warlord: he was a human from far off "Hindaea." I used all the Genasi rules and mechanics, but I roleplayed him as a human. Fortunately my dungeon master understood the importance of story over mechanics.

 

[Rampant]

I guess I don't see the problem. In a world were you have races with distinct sometimes magical abilities, it's only to be expected that they would develop traditions and cultures that make use of their abilities.

I mean why would elven empires fight the same way as dwarven empires? Elves and dwarves are two separate peoples with different biologies and psychologies. Why shouldn't that be expressed through players making use of different builds?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

My complaint for years has been that the choice of race doesn't have enough mechanical effects, that they all occur at 1st level, and that they're too quickly overshadowed by your class choices. 4e is actually better in this regard, and I would hate to see for the game to take a step backward.

 

[Croesus]

I mean why would elven empires fight the same way as dwarven empires? Elves and dwarves are two separate peoples with different biologies and psychologies. Why shouldn't that be expressed through players making use of different builds?

But do you need mechanical differences to make those builds? Take a standard stat array - if you want elven dextrous archers, you put the best stat in Dex; if you want tough dwarven axe wielders, you put the best stat in Con or Str. Likewise, if weapon proficiencies (or something comparable) are in the rules, you select those to match the concept. I don't see a need for mechanical effects to be pre-loaded into the races in order to achieve the effect you mention.

I guess I don't see the problem. In a world were you have races with distinct sometimes magical abilities, it's only to be expected that they would develop traditions and cultures that make use of their abilities.

The part of your quote I bolded is the area I'm unsure of. How to handle things like low-light vision except through race? On the one hand, such natural abilities fit with a specific race. On the other hand, it opens the door to using race simply as a puzzle piece for a specific build, rather than as an RP choice.

 

[trancejeremy]

Frankly, if the races are close to being human, then no, I don't think there should be mechanical effects. It shouldn't be any different than gender - restrictions were dropped, even though realistically they were true in a sense.

OTOH, for more exotic creatures, they should almost be a class unto themselves (how it worked in BECMI with the Creature Crucible series, and sort of 3e)

 

[Nivenus]

Frankly, if the races are close to being human, then no, I don't think there should be mechanical effects. It shouldn't be any different than gender - restrictions were dropped, even though realistically they were true in a sense.

OTOH, for more exotic creatures, they should almost be a class unto themselves (how it worked in BECMI with the Creature Crucible series, and sort of 3e)

Agh! Not races as classes again!

 

[LurkAway]

But do you need mechanical differences to make those builds? Take a standard stat array - if you want elven dextrous archers, you put the best stat in Dex;

Ya, that was the prevailing logic against applying a -2 Str penalty to female PCs. That is, if you don't want a super strong female warrior, just don't give her an 18 Str.

 

[Keeblrkid]

My complaint for years has been that the choice of race doesn't have enough mechanical effects, that they all occur at 1st level, and that they're too quickly overshadowed by your class choices. 4e is actually better in this regard, and I would hate to see for the game to take a step backward.

I couldn't agree more. I have trouble with the fact that a pixie can win an arm wrestling match with a minotaur, and imagining a dragonborn who can't harness his draconic heritage by using his breath weapon makes me sad.

Though I do think I would like it if races did not affect your ability scores, they just had built in mechanics that scaled up as you leveled. Imagine if that +2 racial bonus to strength for being a minotaur was instead a reroll on strength checks.