Should Ronin Arts Submit to Monte Cook's "Year's Best?"

[C. Baize]

So you're saying that Monte/Malhavoc shouldn't be compensated for spending all the time reading, evaluating, and editing the submissions?

Yup. I am.
Wanna know why?
Because he's asking for submissions for which he's not going to pay (and that's really the main point). By definition, that makes the submission a donation. For someone to turn around and sell for profit someone else's donation ... Heh. Let's just say that we really wouldn't stand for that in any other industry unless it was a charitable organization. I agree with Skarka, though... If all the profits went toward a charity organization... Not only would the amount of submissions likely double, but you wouldn't have this murky situation at ALL.

If the book is published through White Wolf, the exposure to those lucky enough to be selected may be worth far more than giving up PI of questionable long-term value. Methinks a little perspective is needed here...

And there's also the rub... I don't care if it's White Wolf. I don't care if it's Malhavoc. I don't care who it is. It's patronizing. It's saying that this group should be held up on a pedestal by virtue of the fact that they are Malhavoc. Or they are White Wolf. And that they are doing you a favor by allowing you to submit material to them.
Perhaps it's the fact that I'm not "starstruck" by anyone, but it just doesn't make any difference to me. Patronization is patronization, and patronization is wrong my friends. Whether it's an "industry professional" or a gamer putting out free material in his spare time from his day job; at the end of the day it's still just some gamer writing for a game.

As for perspective?
Here's some perspective for you:
Author {A} submits work to Monte.
Author {A} doesn't get paid for submission.
Monte puts author {A}'s product in a book.
Monte gets paid for the book.
Who makes out in this deal?

....

It ain't the author...

[opinion]
Neither Malhavoc nor White Wolf are so prestigious that it's worth signing over rights to your PI.
At all.
Ever.
[/opinion]



Or maybe I'm just an anti-fanboy.

 

[C. Baize]

Lastly, regarding PI, we're only getting non-exclusive one-time rights--to be perfectly honest, it's just to make things simpler to review.

That's a whole load different than signing over the rights to your PI...
I'll completely withdraw any arguments against that point.

No, the winners do get a nice trophy, though.

Well... most of those aren't cheap. So, that at least is more like a contest.

 

[Samothdm]

I wish I was the publisher of my book instead of just the author so I could submit it myself. With everything that Mongoose puts out during the year, I doubt my lowly lil' PDF will make the cut if they choose to submit anything.

 

[Crothian]

I wish I was the publisher of my book instead of just the author so I could submit it myself. With everything that Mongoose puts out during the year, I doubt my lowly lil' PDF will make the cut if they choose to submit anything.

E-mail them. E-mail Matt. Ask him to submit your book for this.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And there's also the rub... I don't care if it's White Wolf. I don't care if it's Malhavoc. I don't care who it is. It's patronizing. It's saying that this group should be held up on a pedestal by virtue of the fact that they are Malhavoc. Or they are White Wolf. And that they are doing you a favor by allowing you to submit material to them.
Perhaps it's the fact that I'm not "starstruck" by anyone, but it just doesn't make any difference to me. Patronization is patronization, and patronization is wrong my friends.

I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand. If I'm an aspiring horror writer, and Stephen King decides to publish an anthology titled "Stephen King's Best of This Year's Horror" he is doing me a huge favor by including one of my short stories. If Stephen Spielberg decides to produce a compilation of short films titled "The Best Filmmakers You've Never Heard Of, According to Stephen Spielberg," he's providing a huge boost in exposure to anyone he chooses to include in the project.

You may not care about White Wolf or Monte or anyone else. But I, as a consumer, do. I've never heard of philreed, or purchased any of his products. I own several of Monte's and view his website regularly. Why you insist that Monte's Year's Best project is patronizing, without acknowledging the huge benefit to those chosen to be included, is beyond me.

Or maybe I'm just an anti-fanboy.

Maybe it's as simple as that.

 

[GMSkarka]

There's this thing called the OGL where the situation you describe happens quite often...

The OGL doesn't include Product Identity.

Please stop trying to be clever. You don't do it very well.

Now, that said....

Lastly, regarding PI, we're only getting non-exclusive one-time rights

Fair enough.

 

[C. Baize]

I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand. If I'm an aspiring horror writer, and Stephen King decides to publish an anthology titled "Stephen King's Best of This Year's Horror" he is doing me a huge favor by including one of my short stories. If Stephen Spielberg decides to produce a compilation of short films titled "The Best Filmmakers You've Never Heard Of, According to Stephen Spielberg," he's providing a huge boost in exposure to anyone he chooses to include in the project.

Only if you care what his opinion of the best stuff is.
I don't. I have enough gray matter to form my own opinions, and don't need anyone else to tell me what is or isn't the "Best of the Year" ... Because I'm sure we have completely different criteria.

You may not care about White Wolf or Monte or anyone else. But I, as a consumer, do. I've never heard of philreed, or purchased any of his products. I own several of Monte's and view his website regularly. Why you insist that Monte's Year's Best project is patronizing, without acknowledging the huge benefit to those chosen to be included, is beyond me.

If you've never heard of Phil Reed.... well... you don't get out of the box much, is all I can say... He's been writing professionally in the gaming industry for some time, even before he started writing for D20.
[old school jerk]
(That's right, folks! There was a gaming industry before D20! Whole other companies produced gaming material that had nothing to do with D&D or any WotC / TSR products! And many still do!)
[/old school jerk]

Sorry, bud... but my gaming doesn't revolve around any one writer/company. I'm no slavering fanboy who has to wipe the drool off his keyboard at the mere mention of some particular author. (not saying you are, mind you... but there are plenty who are... you know who you are!)

Maybe it's as simple as that.

Could very well be.
But I doubt it.

What it boils down to is that I'm completely NON-starstruck, and I'm fairly cynical of people who are starstruck....
...
Okay...
I'm pretty derisive of people who are starstruck.
You see... they tend to forget that at the end of the day.... the person they're fawning over is .... just another person. Not someone with magical powers who can end the world's problems.... Just ... some guy who writes for a game.
Heh.

 

[Crothian]

Only if you care what his opinion of the best stuff is.
I don't. I have enough gray matter to form my own opinions, and don't need anyone else to tell me what is or isn't the "Best of the Year" ... Because I'm sure we have completely different criteria.

Then maybe, just maybe this isn't for you. Monte is well informed on the d20 Industry, more then most people in and out of the Industry. He's going to be able to take a look at a lot more product then pretty much anyone else. So, while someone might not agree with his criteria, they also won't have the ability to look through as mush stuff as he can. And as a creator of the d20 game, his thoughts are usually right on.

But I'd suggest you take the next few months and compile your own list of the best of d20 so people can see how yours differs from Montes.

 

[wedgeski]

Originally Posted by Monte
Lastly, regarding PI, we're only getting non-exclusive one-time rights

Fair enough.

Suggesting perhaps that you should have actually *read* the T's & C's before going off on one? Sheesh.

 

[GMSkarka]

Suggesting perhaps that you should have actually *read* the T's & C's before going off on one? Sheesh.

I had already read them, and had our lawyer go over them as well.

What you read above was me politely dropping the argument. My opinion still stands.

Edit: Just wanted to clarify something: My arguments about the P.I. issue are not founded in personal interests---every D20 product Adamant releases is 100% Open Content. We have no P.I. released under D20 that we could get up in arms about. I'm just pointing out the....odd profit structure of this particular effort. The whole "submit your material for free to get the "Extra Special Game Designer Seal of Approval" thing strikes me as a bit like the Emperor's New Clothes, and so I said something about it.