Stuntman
First Post
If the spellcaster is a swordmage, then it definitely should not be the priority target.
D&D 4E Should spellcasters still be priority targets in 4e?
- Thread starter FireLance
- Start date
If the spellcaster is a swordmage, then it definitely should not be the priority target.
keterys
First Post
The priority target should be whoever the monsters can maximize their damage against and take down and keep down.
In some cases that is _actually_ a defender, if ignoring the mark is too painful and the defender is not sufficiently brick-ish. A lot of defenders have one or more low NADs and only Level to 2*Level more hp than anyone else for example.
In some cases, it may be necessary to spread damage around so that healing cannot be focused upon one character.
In many cases, it depends on what you're attacking. AC, go for the protector shaman. Fortitude, go for the rogue.
In a scary number of cases, you might be best off just randomly assigning one monster for the monsters to all gang pile on every combat. If you're consistent about who you target it's too easy to anticipate anyways, and is picking on a player.
Almost never is the right answer generically 'the spellcaster', though. There are a lot of wizards with ACs (and other defenses) as good as anyone else's, with shield, wizard's escape, etc... and are not necessarily a greater threat than the ranger or barbarian or whoever.
In some cases that is _actually_ a defender, if ignoring the mark is too painful and the defender is not sufficiently brick-ish. A lot of defenders have one or more low NADs and only Level to 2*Level more hp than anyone else for example.
In some cases, it may be necessary to spread damage around so that healing cannot be focused upon one character.
In many cases, it depends on what you're attacking. AC, go for the protector shaman. Fortitude, go for the rogue.
In a scary number of cases, you might be best off just randomly assigning one monster for the monsters to all gang pile on every combat. If you're consistent about who you target it's too easy to anticipate anyways, and is picking on a player.
Almost never is the right answer generically 'the spellcaster', though. There are a lot of wizards with ACs (and other defenses) as good as anyone else's, with shield, wizard's escape, etc... and are not necessarily a greater threat than the ranger or barbarian or whoever.
DracoSuave
First Post
Every intellegent combatant knows about the concept of attrition and exhausting your enemy. Surge depletion is merely the crunch for this concept.
So, yeah, enemies -do- know about it--they -have- surges themselves after all.
Except PCs have 6+ surges, many of which can be used for nearly 50% of hit points (due to bonuses for Leader heals).
So, one is talking a minimum of 125 hit points of damage on a 50 hit point PC (and even then, there is a likelihood of having more healing powers in the group and hence, even more hit points) before the PC is permanently put down.
It would be a waste of time trying to deplete surges. And in the case of monsters, they have one surge per tier and can typically not use them.
So sure, a healing monster would have a vague understanding of surges (or at least limited healing), but your average monster who never used one in it's life wouldn't.
The game mechanic crunch almost never applies to the vast majority of NPCs.
Given what you said, the monster would know about healing at best and hence, focus his attacks against a healer (i.e. Leader).
DracoSuave
First Post
I don't play monsters like they are ignorant of how the world (I.E. PCs) might work. Maybe at level 1, but intellegent enemies will have some knowledge of how the opposition will face them.
PCs are rare, but so are Evil Cult Leaders who have powerful curses and are secretly hording all the magical knowledge of a kingdom.
Regarding Healing Surges, no, the enemy doesn't think of it as 'Oh look, he's going down in healing surges' but they -are- aware that the characters are calling on reserves of power that replenish their fatigue.
That said, they'd go after the one unlocking those reserves of awesome, the Leader, if they can.
That said, gooning a Striker and finishing him with a coup-de-grace also solves the problem, and will go a long way towards survivability for the enemy.
Yes, smart (and brutal) enemies who are evil and seek the player's deaths -should- coup-de-grace, and the players should be well aware of this fact.
PCs are rare, but so are Evil Cult Leaders who have powerful curses and are secretly hording all the magical knowledge of a kingdom.
Regarding Healing Surges, no, the enemy doesn't think of it as 'Oh look, he's going down in healing surges' but they -are- aware that the characters are calling on reserves of power that replenish their fatigue.
That said, they'd go after the one unlocking those reserves of awesome, the Leader, if they can.
That said, gooning a Striker and finishing him with a coup-de-grace also solves the problem, and will go a long way towards survivability for the enemy.
Yes, smart (and brutal) enemies who are evil and seek the player's deaths -should- coup-de-grace, and the players should be well aware of this fact.
The strategy that leads to the highest probability of victory for the monsters is generally "Run away, get all monsters together, and come kill party", and the best monster allocation strategy would be something more like "all monsters in one room in the first place."
I'd advise jointly doing encounter design, adventure design, and monster strategy in the way that makes the game the most fun, rather than putting much thought into either realistic or optimal monster strategy or allocation.
I differentiate between strategy and tactics- monsters don't need to be especially well-coordinated or have good overall plans (strategy), but using poor tactics (e.g., provoking an opportunity attack for little benefit, or using an attack that a PC has displayed Resistance to when other attacks are available) consistently could lead to a "letting the PCs win" feeling.
When I DM I usually go for the parties Invoker who blasts just about every monster when he attacks. Or try to pin the archer in a corner. Or clobber the annoying gnome bard. Sometimes I go for the cocky barbarian. Most of the time I am stuck with the ugly Battle Vigor Dwarf Fighter and get my ass kicked.
Sometimes it is easiest just ganging up on the tank since nearly nobody has a power to pull something off him. The downside to that is that he goes in complete defensive mode, using crushing surge. If I go for something else, he goes for Brash Strike which is just plain annoying.
It is quite fun though, we play quite fast rounds, so both sides do stupid things. Mostly it's me (the dm), but the players do some RP choices that aren't always optimal in combat. For instance the tank running away from some archers because he got kicked in the previous combat. He got IC nagged about that for a long time. Very fun indeed.
Sometimes it is easiest just ganging up on the tank since nearly nobody has a power to pull something off him. The downside to that is that he goes in complete defensive mode, using crushing surge. If I go for something else, he goes for Brash Strike which is just plain annoying.
It is quite fun though, we play quite fast rounds, so both sides do stupid things. Mostly it's me (the dm), but the players do some RP choices that aren't always optimal in combat. For instance the tank running away from some archers because he got kicked in the previous combat. He got IC nagged about that for a long time. Very fun indeed.
FurryFighter
First Post
The rules state that all creatures know exactly what PCs do to them, such as marks, status effects, etc.
So a paladin or fighter marking a creature, that creature will know exactly what mark, even if its an ooze or a hobgoblin or an actual NPC paladin.
They would probably also know about second wind and healing surges, since every PC will have that, and they can know powers of classes despite not every PC being that class.
So a paladin or fighter marking a creature, that creature will know exactly what mark, even if its an ooze or a hobgoblin or an actual NPC paladin.
They would probably also know about second wind and healing surges, since every PC will have that, and they can know powers of classes despite not every PC being that class.
FireLance
Legend
I guess the upshot of all this discussion is that "spellcaster" is a meaningless term in 4e, and that there really is no single "target the X" rule of thumb - it really depends on who is making things most difficult for the monsters (or at least, who the monsters think will make things most difficult for them) at any one point in time.
I always went with this rule in all gaming: small party, kill the damage/win condition. big party, kill the control/stall.
In small enemy groups, there are fewer damage dealers and fewer sources of damge sources so KO'ing one hurts their damage a lot. The striker could be dealing 40% of the damage in a 3 man team.
As parties get larger, effects become more important than raw damage. Some on dancing zones all over the feild can have a big impact. When I DM, I try HARD to stop controller encounter powers or make them miss. Healing is bad mid-fight. It practically lsoing a turn. I'd rather take 20 more damage than have my elite "miss a turn" due to positioning.
In small enemy groups, there are fewer damage dealers and fewer sources of damge sources so KO'ing one hurts their damage a lot. The striker could be dealing 40% of the damage in a 3 man team.
As parties get larger, effects become more important than raw damage. Some on dancing zones all over the feild can have a big impact. When I DM, I try HARD to stop controller encounter powers or make them miss. Healing is bad mid-fight. It practically lsoing a turn. I'd rather take 20 more damage than have my elite "miss a turn" due to positioning.
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