Should Spot checks include looking up?

[3catcircus]

We have peripheral vision for a reason. Spot automatically includes looking up.

Alternately, here's a little experiment:

1. Sneak up behind the GM.
2. Pour a glass of water on him from above.

If he catches you, note that he wasn't specifically looking up, and that neither should your characters be expected to note the same.

If he doesn't catch you... the result is still satisfying.

95% of the time, if he is unaware, he won't catch you until *after* the first drop has hit his head. By then it is too late.

The last time I checked, real-world peripheral vision works better horizontally than vertically. Unless you specifically look up, I'd argue that Spot doesn't include the up direction.

Regardless of lack of "facing" rules in combat, the game most certainly has "facing" when it comes to spatial orientation, otherwise you could just walk up a wall like a bug.

Additionally, unless something is just sitting there, in high contrast to its surroundings, it should be considered to be trying to hide, so that should make a specific spot check upwards to be an opposed check.

 

[TheEvil]

95% of the time, if he is unaware, he won't catch you until *after* the first drop has hit his head. By then it is too late.

The last time I checked, real-world peripheral vision works better horizontally than vertically. Unless you specifically look up, I'd argue that Spot doesn't include the up direction.

Regardless of lack of "facing" rules in combat, the game most certainly has "facing" when it comes to spatial orientation, otherwise you could just walk up a wall like a bug.

Additionally, unless something is just sitting there, in high contrast to its surroundings, it should be considered to be trying to hide, so that should make a specific spot check upwards to be an opposed check.

This I submit the question to you: What is the difference between a character with a high spot and one with a low spot? To me, it is situational awareness. You seem to be saying you don't see it that way.

 

[Crothian]

there is no facing is this edition. you see 360 degrees now and stop on a silver piece from a run.

Fixed that for you

 

[jeffh]

I was going to post pretty much what Dracorat said in his first post to this thread. Both the DMG and (according to another poster) the staging notes for WLD say to give a bonus for being specific. They do not say to hose the players for not being specific, and doing so is not a reasonable house rule, either from a realism point of view or a smooth gameplay point of view. As far as I'm concerned, that is pretty much all there is to the issue. Your DM is just wrong.

EDIT: 200th vote, for whatever that's worth. (And it put the poll at exactly 190-10 in favour of "yes", as well; you don't see one that lopsided very often, at least not with reasonably unbiased questions like this one.)

 

[Legildur]

Fixed that for you

Given that it's Diaglo, I would have made it an electrum piece!

 

[D.Shaffer]

Spot is the art of knowing how to take in your surroundings so you dont get ambushed. I find it a bit ridiculous that anyone would NOT include looking up at the ceiling. In a world where many monsters make a niche of dropping from above, of course we're all going to be looking at the ceiling. Having to specifically mention that you're looking at the ceiling is about as silly as describing in detail how you're mounting your horse.

"Whoops, you didnt mention you put your foot in the stirrup, I'm going to have to penalize you for that!"

 

[Li Shenron]

Not once did the GM allow a Spot check to notice them on the ceiling unless the party members specifically said they were looking up.

I find that one a bit too "old school" DMing for my tastes...

If you want to reward a player who has the intuition of looking just into the right place, I would use a high DC and a large circumstance bonus to he who looks up. But making it impossible by not allowing a spot check (you roll spot even for invisible creatures...) is unfair.

 

[Delta]

To me, Search is a conscience effort, Spot is something was seen that you were not looking for or expecting. Thus something overhead would be Spot. Afterall- how often will one walk down a hallway watching the ceiling and not where they are walking. When at a doorway, you are Searching for trouble thus one would look overhead.

No, the real difference is that Search-is-close-up (touching) and Spot-is-far-away. You can definitely Spot in a conscious, intentional manner if you so choose, per SRD:

Action... Trying to spot something you failed to see previously is a move action. To read lips, you must concentrate for a full minute before making a Spot check, and you can’t perform any other action (other than moving at up to half speed) during this minute.

Try Again: Yes. You can try to spot something that you failed to see previously at no penalty...

 

[Drowbane]

IMHO:
1/ There is no directional facing in D&D; and
2/ "up" is a direction; and
3/ requiring "I look up" (and the like) in every room yields an obnoxious play style that requires a law degree to describe a normal, mundane action sequence of an experienced adventurer.

Thus, Spot check includes looking up.

-- N

I concur with the NY-Penguin.

 

[painandgreed]

Fixed that for you

A dime is closer to the size of a platinium peice, and a silver peice to a quarter. (based upon densities of the metals and aproximations of thickness based on historical coins).