Should the PCs try and capture the NPC starship?

[chaochou]

Imo that is not likely to work.
First its not even sure that they will respond instead of leaving the rescue to the starport. A rating C port isnt that small after all. And even if they respond they will only send the launch over so you will never set foot on the real ship.

You don't know any of those things. It's simply your own dismal naysaying. A dreary fun-sucking attempt to impose your own vision, despite absolutely no entitlement to do so.

So in a similar spirit, your contributions are a paragon of tediously over-cautious non-play. Hundreds of empty, lifeless words which amount to a proposal to 'gather information'.

Every last thing you've added to this thread amounts to a GM laying the groundwork for their railroad, atttempting to shut down as many immediate options as possible and keeping the players as passive and disempowered as you can.

 

[pemerton]

If I was going to try and get aboard the cruiser it wouldn't be through violence, and probably not stealth either.

I'd be looking to broadcast a distress signal and claim to have a life support malfunction and multiple system failures - throw the ship into a slow awkward spin to make it look convincing. Something to get you on board the target ship with a credible reason to be there and as little suspicion as possible.

Interesting. So far, the players' deception planning has relied on their "credentials" as Planetary Rescue Systems Inspectorate officers. They haven't speculated about introducing a new dimension of deception into the situation.

EDIT: I'm expecting there are going to be some opposed checks - eg computer vs computer to hack into the Cruiser computer and shut the troopers into their staterooms.

I'm thinking requiring the PCs to beat the NPCs is a reasonable call for these - with equal levels of skill expertise, that makes the odds of success (by my maths) 575/1296, which is slightly better than the 15/36 of 8+ on a 2D throw (575/36 is just a touch short of 16).

 

[Derren]

You don't know any of those things. It's simply your own dismal naysaying. A dreary fun-sucking attempt to impose your own vision, despite absolutely no entitlement to do so.

So in a similar spirit, your contributions are a paragon of tediously over-cautious non-play. Hundreds of empty, lifeless words which amount to a proposal to 'gather information'.

Every last thing you've added to this thread amounts to a GM laying the groundwork for their railroad, atttempting to shut down as many immediate options as possible and keeping the players as passive and disempowered as you can.

Traveller is, compared to most other modern SciFi games, rather hard. That means to keep the tone of the setting that NPCs would act more intelligently than James Bond/Austin Powers villains.

According to the stats I found a Type-T has a Ship Boat as troop transport and boarding craft. Especially if you are dealing with military they would never dock their ship to an unknown vessel to prevent exactly what the PCs are planning. That is standard protocol. The boat can also accelerate with 6G, so it can deliver them faster to the starport than the cruiser in about 2 hours assuming a earth like 100d distance. So no need to get strangers on the main ship. The last thing you want is having civilians on board while you are involved in illegal bioweapon research.
Someone can pretend to have a medical emergency but you run the risk of being separated from the rest and shoved into a low berth or drugged with fast. They probably also have enough scientists on board to discover the ruse quickly.

If the NPCs are run as bumbling idiots so that everything the players do succed then there is no need for this thread.

EDIT: I'm expecting there are going to be some opposed checks - eg computer vs computer to hack into the Cruiser computer and shut the troopers into their staterooms.

I'm thinking requiring the PCs to beat the NPCs is a reasonable call for these - with equal levels of skill expertise, that makes the odds of success (by my maths) 575/1296, which is slightly better than the 15/36 of 8+ on a 2D throw (575/36 is just a touch short of 16).

Just remember that if you make this too easy the players will use this over and over again to take over ships.
You should also ask yourself what kind of safeguards a military ship would have against this type of attack.

 

[pemerton]

A rating C port isnt that small after all.

A Class C starport has unrefined fuel and reasonable repair facilities. That's all. It can't build vessels (starships or non-starships) and, in this particular case, has no bases.

So it needn't be that big, and in the case of the orbital facility about Enlil I don't think either the players or I envisage it being especially big or well-staffed.

Traveller is, compared to most other modern SciFi games, rather hard. That means to keep the tone of the setting that NPCs would act more intelligently than James Bond/Austin Powers villains.

According to the stats I found a Type-T has a Ship Boat as troop transport and boarding craft. Especially if you are dealing with military they would never dock their ship to an unknown vessel to prevent exactly what the PCs are planning. That is standard protocol.

<snip>

The last thing you want is having civilians on board while you are involved in illegal bioweapon research.

The PCs could wait until the Ship's Boat has landed on Enlil to implement a distress-related plan - and a G-carrier (the other ship's vehicle) can't operate in space as such.

If the NPCs are run as bumbling idiots so that everything the players do succed then there is no need for this thread.

Well, I'm the OP and I already stated the reason for this thread:

I'm the referee, but started this thread to get advice/ideas for my players - and also for fun, because I like talking about RPGing!)

[MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION]'s contribution fits with that purpose.

 

[pemerton]

Just remember that if you make this too easy the players will use this over and over again to take over ships.
You should also ask yourself what kind of safeguards a military ship would have against this type of attack.

Well, the real constraint on taking over ships in a RPG is (i) the amount of playing time, and (ii) the number of ship encounters that take place within that time.

But ingame, the most obvious defence is the Anti-hijack program. As well as the challenge of actually accessing the ship's computer in the first place.

 

[Derren]

The PCs could wait until the Ship's Boat has landed on Enlil to implement a distress-related plan - and a G-carrier (the other ship's vehicle) can't operate in space as such.

Unless they are in such a hurry to send the boat ahead this would mean that the cruiser entered orbit or docked on the highport and they used the boat to descent onto the surface. But in that case you cant be sure that the cruiser responds to a distress call and not the highport itself which sends a boat over. They might also recall the boat from the ground. After all it is faster than the cruiser and assuming 1,2 mil distance would reach them about 1 hour earlier. Or there might be other traffic in the system which might be closer. A class C starport usually indicates that there is at least some traffic in the system to justify a highport and repair facilities.
It might also look a tad suspicious to loiter at the 100d for a few hours till the cruiser has docked.

You might also get some problems with the captain as missusing a distress call most certainly incurs a fine, if not worse. And depending how far you get with the deception there might also be towing and/or repair fees if you sabotage something on your ship. Not to mention the lost time and money.

Returning to the highport and trying to access the computer from there sounds a lot less risky. And depending on the law level on the planet you might be able to assault one of the ground teams (with archaic weapons if possible) to interrogate prisoners. Alternatevely, try to get some of them drunk. A secret base certainly doesnt has much recreational facilities

 

[pemerton]

Unless they are in such a hurry to send the boat ahead this would mean that the cruiser entered orbit or docked on the highport and they used the boat to descent onto the surface. But in that case you cant be sure that the cruiser responds to a distress call and not the highport itself which sends a boat over.

Well, if the cruiser is trying to bring Enlilians on board, it pobably won't dock with the starport. So the distress plan would (presumably) involve making the call while it is close and the starport is far.

They might also recall the boat from the ground. After all it is faster than the cruiser and assuming 1,2 mil distance would reach them about 1 hour earlier.

They might. But might not, given that the boat is (we're assuming) on the planet, waiting for its crew to return with captives/bodies for experimentation purposes.

It might also look a tad suspicious to loiter at the 100d for a few hours till the cruiser has docked.

It might. Presumably you'd pretend that there's been some sot of drive/power issue, then head back towards the planet (for repairs, fuel intake or whatever) and fake your disaster at the appropriate moment.

A class C starport usually indicates that there is at least some traffic in the system to justify a highport and repair facilities.

It's a TL 3 world with a disease-ridden atmosphere. Presumably the starport is to ensure that Imperial interests are protected. There's not likely to be a lot of traffic, though, I wouldn't think.

In any event, these are all points of detail which dpened on elements of the situation that haven't been established yet one way or another.

You might also get some problems with the captain as missusing a distress call most certainly incurs a fine, if not worse.

Well, if you're planning on taking control of a ship, presumably you're prepared to risk these consequences.

Returning to the highport and trying to access the computer from there sounds a lot less risky.

I don't follow. What is the point of accessing the computer, except as part of an attempt to take the ship?

 

[Derren]

I don't follow. What is the point of accessing the computer, except as part of an attempt to take the ship?

Information gathering.
Logs, flight plans to discover additional bases, scans from Olyx it has made, infornation about any ships that are considered friendly and thus likely part of the conspiracy. Bios from the crew for eventual blackmail, communication logs with Olyx, etc.
Get creative.

You might also be able to corrupt the system to ground the ship for a few days or a week to have it out of commission when you go to Olyx yourself or just want more time to squeeze the crew for any information.

 

[chaochou]

Traveller is, compared to most other modern SciFi games, rather hard.

I bought my Classic Traveller in about 1982. I know plenty about how it's run. I know what it says. And I also know what it doesn't.

Cite me the rule that says 'When the players propose something fun, tell them it fails.'

Traveller is, compared to most other modern SciFi games, rather hard.
That means to keep the tone of the setting that NPCs would act more intelligently than James Bond/Austin Powers villains.

You brought up Austin Powers and James Bond. If you can't let players propose and resolve actions without the game becoming slapstick, that's not the game's fault, the players or mine. But to be completely clear here - you're not the tone police. Just self-righteous enough to think you are.

Especially if you are dealing with military they would never dock their ship to an unknown vessel to prevent exactly what the PCs are planning. That is standard protocol.

No. It's not. It's your lame excuse for pre-judging outcomes. cf railroading.

The boat can also accelerate with 6G, so it can deliver them faster to the starport than the cruiser in about 2 hours assuming a earth like 100d distance.

The boat missed its last three maintenance checks - one of the hazards of a tight schedule running illegal operations and a bureacratic mix-up the last time they docked. Currently grounded except as a last-ditch lifepod. See, I can make up fiction too.

The problem with mine, clearly, is that it's actually interesting.

The last thing you want is having civilians on board while you are involved in illegal bioweapon research.

Oh, I see. Now you've packaged up the motivations, ideas and personality of an entire crew and used it as yet more tragic rationalisation for pre-judging outcomes. cf railroading

Actually the Captain was once in an emergency situation himself as a young boy and vividly remembers his own rescue. He may be researching bio-weapons, but he'll take a distress call seriously. There's no honour amongst thieves though, and three or four of the other senior crew lost patience the last time they went out to a distress beacon. This one could easily push them over the edge.

Oh sorry. Couldn't possibly be true. I made that up as I typed it, but it required some basic imagination and personality and opens the possibility for dramatic, unexpected play. We don't want that. We want to pacify the players into doing nothing more than 'collecting information' - your lame euphimism for asking to be railroaded.

If the NPCs are run as bumbling idiots so that everything the players do succed then there is no need for this thread.

Oh sure. Shutting down any player input as a failure before it's even been attempted is so much more compelling than creating dynamic situations and npcs with flaws, weaknesses and motivations and letting the players play.

 

[Derren]

Oh sure. Shutting down any player input as a failure before it's even been attempted is so much more compelling than creating dynamic situations and npcs with flaws, weaknesses and motivations and letting the players play.

You might only be able to run games with mustache twirling villains who are so stupid that everything the players attempt succeed, but in any other game there are better and worse choices for any situation.
The players can of course attempt your simple trick, but that is risky as it depends on the crew of the other ship to be stupid (without any evidence to support this) or on thr boat to be damaged, again without any evidence that this is the case. And while failure will not be life threatening it will make them look suspicious and close off some option how to exploit this situation like offering transportation along their trade route which gets them past Olyx, if the sector map makes this possible, and the engineer a problem with the cruiser so that hopefully they get hired to transport the speciment back (but that is a very long shot and would require Hiver level intrigue to set up).

Sure, the enemy captain might have exactly the flaw you describe. But do the PCs know that? Thats why information gathering is so important. You find out who you can bribe, blackmail or turn and then act on that knowledge. You do not make plans hoping that people you have no information of have the exact flaw that you need.

I also missed the note where the players have to do what I say. I present options what I think would and would not work (and an explanation why, which is more than what you have done) but the players still decide what their character would do based on their personality.