Should traps have tells?

[Zaukrie]

Of course. But traps don’t have to be perfect to be effective. Also not every single trap is going to be so badly made that it provides a tell.

Seems to be a lot of excluded middle here:

“The only possible way a trap wouldn’t have a tell is it’s perfectly made.”

That’s obviously not true.

Look at the traps used in Vietnam. Most were crudely made with barely a thin cover of dirt and flora hiding them, and yet the casualties caused were devastating. Little to no tells and when there were tells, they were used as lures for other traps.

Of course, I didn't say this. You said there is no realistic way for a trap to be noticed in an active world. In any event, we don't agree. Have a good day.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Although I think it was my post in another thread that started this, reading this thread I'll acknowledge (top of the hat to @Lanefan especially) that there's one possible exception to my insistence that all traps have tells: the kinds of traps that allow decision-making after they have been sprung. The room slowly filling with sand. The portcullis that prevents backtracking. The tripwire that rings that bell that alerts the guards. Etc.

Not that this means they can't have tells or shouldn't have tells...but I don't think it's a crime to have (some) tell-less traps like that.

In one sense this is a variation to the distinction I've made elsewhere between traps that are easy to find but hard to negate, and those that are hard to find by easy to negate. This type of trap is "easy to find" in that you just stepped on the pressure plate (dumb@$$!) but "hard to negate" in that you now have to figure out how to solve the predicament you just created.

As for the verisimilitude argument:

1. It is totally realistic for some traps to have tells.
2. It may not be realistic for all traps in the universe to have tells, but presumably the players are only seeing a tiny fraction of all the traps in the world. See point #1.
3. In the absence of modern dentistry, another thing that would be highly verisimilitudinous would be rampant tooth decay among PCs. (Which is more fun, tell-less traps or tooth decay? I dunno; it's a toss-up.)

In any given dungeon, I'd rather have just one well-thought out trap that is subtly telegraphed and requires ten or fifteen minutes of player planning to discover and bypass...the kind that causes the players to all cheer because they have genuinely accomplished something when it is finally "solved"...than any number of trivial roll-a-die and keep going traps.

Also, all of the above applies equally to secret doors.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Look at the traps used in Vietnam. Most were crudely made with barely a thin cover of dirt and flora hiding them, and yet the casualties caused were devastating. Little to no tells and when there were tells, they were used as lures for other traps.

We should survey some Vietnam vets and ask them how fun that was.

 

[Bill Zebub]

A "tell" doesn't have to mean the trap as poorly implemented. A tell (or telegraph) is anything that causes the players to spend time being extra careful in the right places, so that they don't have to waste time being extra careful everywhere. "Hey, remember what the old man said....'ware the weeping mermaid...maybe he meant this statue?"