Should WoTC Bring back Classic D&D?

As much as I love Classic D&D, and would love to see a retro re-release packed with nostalgic goodness, I don't think it'd be worth it. I've still got my booklets, even if the boxes themselves have been mostly destroyed by time and use.

I've said it before, that WotC should make their current basic D&D game last for longer than two levels. I think that between C&C and True20 and the like, there's a definite market for a simpler version of the rules.
 

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Melan said:
As sympathetic I am to your views, my advice is: let it go. Just let it go and walk away. You will not accomplish anything.

My advice is comb through the SRD. Decide what to keep, and what to toss. Look at other OGL materials (Monte Cook's work springs to mind, as well as some of the OGL monster books) and start designing your new system. Then add some new systems based on what isn't in the OGL, slap a D20 System logo on it, and market it as a seperate game in pdf form. If you kept the cost down, you would get some form of return. If you could combine the structural strength of 3.X with the fluidity of older versions, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Then I would encourage everyone I know to do the same.

I do agree that you would need three PDFs representing the three core books, but I would make the DMG contain a lot more advice and be more rules lite. You might be able to combine the DMG and MM if the PHB had enough core rules to run the game.

In my own case, I decided I want to run something based off of Doctor Who. At first I thought the 3.X minutia-heavy approach would work well for this (I could differentiate Mark I vs. Mark III K-9s! I could make each era Cyberman and Dalek different!). I had specifically thought that I could run it as a form of d20 Modern/Future/Past. But some of these recent threads caused me to reconsider.

I am still using the basic d20 mechanism, but I've dropped most of the tables. Basic descriptions of what skills are, and a basic overview of DC, opposed, and complex checks ought to be enough, especially when combined with the DS system from Fairs and Tournaments. Basic ideas of what DCs 5/10/15/20/25/etc mean should remove the need for complex rules about the DCs of each individual skill.

I dropped levels entirely, starting with HP = Con, and starting skill points = Int. Progress is by Action Points, skill points, and Knacks. Knacks are sort of like light feats, similar to some of the ideas in the FASA version of the Doctor Who rpg. Some Knacks take an action point to activate, other Knacks are always on. Hit Points and defense can be improved by Knacks.

Attacks are resolved by DC. If you are trying to hit AC 14 and your total roll is 16, you do 16 - 14 = 2 damage. Your weapon might have a damage multiplier that alters this amount of damage. Weapon skills can be used to attack or defend. No AoOs.

(I resolved the Time Lord problem by giving humans more action points to counterbalance the automatic Time Lord Knacks, and by making Time Lord characters round-robin....when they regenerate they are passed on to another player. :D )

A lite version of D&D might use some of these ideas. It's an easy system that doesn't get bogged down in minutia.
 

Raven Crowking said:
My advice is comb through the SRD. Decide what to keep, and what to toss. Look at other OGL materials...and start designing your new system.
That's pretty much the approach Castles & Crusades took (OGL-based, but designed to be very much like older versions of D&D in rules and feel).

Basic Fantasy does something similar. So does Warriors and Wizards. There's also an "old school" system reference document being put together. See this Dragonsfoot thread for more information.
 

Philotomy Jurament said:
That's pretty much the approach Castles & Crusades took (OGL-based, but designed to be very much like older versions of D&D in rules and feel).

Basic Fantasy does something similar. So does Warriors and Wizards. There's also an "old school" system reference document being put together. See this Dragonsfoot thread for more information.

I knew about C&C and Basic Fantasy, but not Warriors and Wizards. Interesting ... :)
 



Raven Crowking said:
[Monty Burns Mode]Exxxccccellent![/End Monty Burns Mode]

Yes. I find Castles & Crusades an excellent balance between the two. You have the hearkening back to 2nd edition in the initiative system, the races, classes, hit points, etc. and you have key concepts such as Attack Bonus, Armor class, and a loosely based skill DC system for the prime ability scores that pull straight from 3rd edition. (Technically, SEIGE is not a DC system, but it works in much the same fashion.) In fact, the only change I'd make when running a C&C adventure is take a page from 3E and replace the "12 or 18" target numbers with a variable DC, and just give those who chose their primes a +6 bonus to their rolls when making them.

Now, Green Ronin's True20 system is another excellent option, which leans closer to 3E's feats and skills without adding too much in complexity, but those looking for something closer to what has gone before in AD&D are probably closer to home with C&C.

I don't know of any game that tries to directly mimic Basic D&D's "no races, only classes" approach, but I haven't looked at any of the above other games, either.
 

trancejeremy said:
Well, from a financial point of view it likely wouldn't make sense. But it would be pretty cool.

I would prefer AD&D 1st edition though, not the D&D. Not that D&D was bad, but AD&D was more popular.

There is C&C and Hackmaster, but one isn't very good (combining all the bad bits of 3.x and earlier versions) and the other isn't a serious game, really.


You have just proven you don't understand either game.

I wouldn't play C&C, let alone love it, if it was a bad game. It takes the best elements, and then adds a simple and elegant SIEGE mechanic, that allows me to play a simple fast paced game that still allows for disarms, evading, flank attacks, dodge, two weapon fighting, touch attacks, and spell casting. Plus I can easily use my previously useless OD&D, 1E, and 2E stuff, along with whatever I want from 3E.

Plus the players aren't limited to a list of chosen feats or skills.

So don't knock C&C, it is the simple, solid, fun game that I wish 3E had been. Apparently complexity is better for most, but I will take the rock solid simplicity of C&C over any version of D&D any day of the week.

As for Hackmaster, it is as serious as you want it to be. You don't like the humor? Ignore it. There, it is gone. Now play the serious rules. I don't like Hackmaster though. About as complex as 3E in its own way, and not as fundamentally clear of a rules set either.

At least I took the time to play the friggin games and actually know how they work.
 

Philotomy Jurament said:
Just as a clarification, I think Warriors and Wizards is more d20 than old-school.

Yeah, I noticed that. :\ Still, it is cool to see such fan-produced free products.

'Basic Fantasy' clearly hearkens back to the Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert rules, whereas C&C is more 'AD&D-ish' (but less byzantine).
 

MerricB said:
Correction: the Expert booklet covered levels 4-14. (And, yes, I'm looking at the Cook version now). A "Companion" set of levels 15-36 was planned but never eventuated, instead the entire line was reworked by Frank Mentzer two years later.

I was just ranting about that over on DF.

The Companion giving more detail for levels 15-36 was promised in the Expert book, but it also gave you everything you needed to continue to any arbitrary level. & while they did save some pages by not reprinting spell, monster, & treasure descriptions from Basic; Expert did include lots of 1st-3rd level info.

Incidentally, I believe the Companion envisioned at that time was more of a supplement than just Companion:Expert::Expert:Basic.

----

As for whether they would reprint classic D&D, they already did, albeit as micro-books. (^_^)

I still don't really understand why someone can claim that bringing classic D&D back to print makes no sense, but it does make sense for so many other games to remain in print that are older than D&D.
 

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