Should XP be given by Encounter Level or Challenge Rating?

[Wednesday Boy]

I'm running a Dungeon Crawl Classic and I'm confused about how to give out XP. Each monster and trap has a Challenge Rating and each room has an Encounter Level. Should I give XP based on the CRs or the ELs?

If I should give it out by the EL, is that done by using the XP table in the DMG as if the room's EL was a monster's CR?

Thanks for your help!

 

[MINI]

I would guess to say either way is good, but by EL is best as it combines the factors of the monsters and the traps in the room together. This way if you have a CR 3 trap that really complicates a battle with an otyugh in the same room its all factored into the XP you hand out.

 

[Aidan Milvus]

Officially xp is granted by CR. EL is just a system to judge how difficult the encounter is. Using the DMG they suggest to hand out treasure by EL, but I've always done that by CR as well, and now with the MIC's treasure tables, they have you go by CR too... But that's getting off the subject a bit.

Also, if you went by CR, I think you'd be screwing the players out of a bit of XP, but I don't have my DMG with me to check the numbers. Or I guess it might depend on the number of creatures too.

Figuring it out from what I can remember, a cr 1 creature with 4 lvl 1 pc's would give 75 to each PC. 2 CR 1's would give 150, 4 would give 300. 2 CR 1's is an EL 3 which would be 225, 4 CR 1's would be EL 5 and would around 400 each (give or take... its off the top of my head)

So at least by that example you'd actually probably be giving out more xp than normal. If I had my book with me, I'd figure out the example MINI mentioned with the CR 3 trap and the otyugh, but without the xp table, its a little hard. Also, then you'd have to factor in whether or not they actually even encountered the trap (by setting it off or spotting it first) should you give out the xp if they never even knew the trap was there? Can they really have experienced it then? And if you bring other monsters from other rooms, you'd have to recalculate the EL then.

That's some of the reasons xp is by CR...

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Thanks for the replies! So if I understand correctly, XP should be given based on the CRs and EL is more of a way to eyeball whether the party can handle the challenge. (Which works with the module because on closer inspection the CR for situationally tougher monsters has been increased.)

 

[Jhaelen]

Thanks for the replies! So if I understand correctly, XP should be given based on the CRs and EL is more of a way to eyeball whether the party can handle the challenge. (Which works with the module because on closer inspection the CR for situationally tougher monsters has been increased.)

Well, mostly, yes. If circumstances warrant an EL adjustment, XP are typically also adjusted.
E.g. if monsters are expecting the pcs and set an ambush, the EL may be increased by 1 or 2, multiplying the XP granted by CR by a factor of 1.5 or even 2. There's a paragraph about this is the DMG.

In most modules this is done rather than adjusting the CR.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the insight!

 

[Herzog]

I recently had a discussion about this with some of the members of my group.

It's very important to give out XP based on the individual CR of the creature.

Looking at the table in the DMG, you will find that if you group monsters into EL and then use that to give out XP, it will be (approximately) the same as when you multiply the single monster XP with the number of monsters. (approximately, because some EL's are given for 7 or 8 creatures, etc.)

Why then is it important to use the individual monster CR for XP?

Because below a certain CR, monsters don't provide XP anymore.

The reasoning behind this is that starting at a certain point, low CR creatures can't hit you, can't damage you, and are probably obliterated within the first round without costing any resources.

Using a lot of these creatures would increase the EL, maybe even up to a point that it would yield XP if looked up in the XP table as 'effective CR'. However, the combined forces of those opponents still can't hit you, can't damage you, and will be obliterated in a few more rounds, still without costing any resources.

Bad PC! no Xp for you.......

Herzog

 

[Maldor]

I recently had a discussion about this with some of the members of my group.

It's very important to give out XP based on the individual CR of the creature.

Looking at the table in the DMG, you will find that if you group monsters into EL and then use that to give out XP, it will be (approximately) the same as when you multiply the single monster XP with the number of monsters. (approximately, because some EL's are given for 7 or 8 creatures, etc.)

Why then is it important to use the individual monster CR for XP?

Because below a certain CR, monsters don't provide XP anymore.

The reasoning behind this is that starting at a certain point, low CR creatures can't hit you, can't damage you, and are probably obliterated within the first round without costing any resources.

Using a lot of these creatures would increase the EL, maybe even up to a point that it would yield XP if looked up in the XP table as 'effective CR'. However, the combined forces of those opponents still can't hit you, can't damage you, and will be obliterated in a few more rounds, still without costing any resources.

Bad PC! no Xp for you.......

Herzog

see it that no XP that gets me when i DM and it gives no XP i don't even have the players roll they just get told they beat them and suffer no real damage.
If it cost any of their resorces a single HP one 1st level spell slot then it had some challange and some lose so should be worth some xp even if its a very small amount.

 

[skelso]

see it that no XP that gets me when i DM and it gives no XP i don't even have the players roll they just get told they beat them and suffer no real damage.
If it cost any of their resorces a single HP one 1st level spell slot then it had some challange and some lose so should be worth some xp even if its a very small amount.

You might take a look at the Unearthed Arcana alternate experience table. It no longer relies on a sliding scale of experience reward; every CR has a set xp reward. So, even a 20th level party would still get xp from killing a lowly CR 1/3 Goblin Warrior, though such a piddling amount that it might take several thousand to level.

 

[Herzog]

that's kind of missing the point.

you don't get XP because the monster isn't providing a challenge.

if you DM, your players shouldn't be encountering these monsters anyway, they're 'no fun' to battle, because you know the party is just going to go through them like a hot knife through butter supernova through a pocket of hydrogen gas. ehm. you get the idea.

And yes, handwaving the encounter is probably the fastest way to get through such an encounter, although I find that roleplaying the encounter can also have it's merits.
(How do 20+ lvl characters handle 5 kobolds cowering in a corner?)

About fixed XP awards:
That's how the XP for monsters was in OD&D and AD&D.
But then, the XP tables for characters where more exponential too.....

Herzog