Shouldn't Miracle have an XP component?

[kreynolds]

Gee, after all that you can respond with more than a belittlement or a snub.

Maybe I will send it in, haven't had the need to so far...

Nope.

I'm just sick of seeing this damn thread on the boards.

 

[Zhure]

Also, since the POWER or Wish/Miracle is needed to create the tomes/manuals and you must have the spell slot "used" in the process... that means that WITHOUT Miracle (or Wish) you could not make the item.

Put it this way, the POWER or Miracle is what is making the items, nothing else matters but that (aside from caster level, but you cannot cast Miracle unless you have the caster level req.)

How can you say that it is immaterial that Miracle is listed as NECESSARY to create the item, when making the case the Miracle COULD grant an ability increase on its own?

This is all skewed.

Miracle and Wish don't make magic items, craft Feats make magic items. Preparing and using spell slots of the appropriate prerequisites makes magic items.

Wish is able to make magic items but limited to a 15,000 gp value.

Greg

 

[Zhure]

Very nice argument above, Zhure. The same one I would have used to state:

Of course Miracle can grant inherent bonsues to stats. Per the spell, it would cost 5,000 Exp Pts and only be granted if the DM decided the diety in question was of a mind to grant it. It is even possible to grant more than one point of an inherent bonus, if the DM thinks the diety feels like it. Heck - you might ask for one point and get five, if the DM wants to (I wouldn't, but in specific circumstances it MIGHT be appropriate). This is one of the real advantages of being a cleric - though it works both ways - sometimes you get nothing, or worse, if your god is upset with you. You might even get a previous inherent bonus removed!

Miracle is exceptionally open-ended, even more so than Wish, but limited by the fact that it is a "request" that may or may not be granted. I would assume that gods really don't like being disturbed too often, either, so that's another balancing factor.

This is really so simple - read the spell. Anything not specifically listed may be granted with a 5,000 exp pt cost if the DM feels like having the diety grant it.

Since you are "asking" the diety for something, anything can happen. The 5,000 exp. pt. uses should probably be used only with extreme caution - it might be better to wait until you've accomplished something worthy of such a reward.

Absolutely. I think we agree but are approaching it from different angle. What I'm saying is that the default Miracle doesn't grant inherent bonuses but with the 5,000 XP expenditure it might, based on the deity's whim. Which meshes with what you've said.

Crikey, it looks like almost everyone is in agreement save one dissenter.

Greg

 

[Krystoff]

As a player of a Cleric who will soon be able to cast Miracle, I thought "This thread must have something to offer me as a player, there are 6 pages of debate. I shall read them all."

That was my first mistake. I have just wasted the last 20 minutes of my life.

Thank you. I think I felt I needed to share my trauma with someone else.

P.S

nwn-deadman, shouting, calling people stupid, and flaming people (even if they did it first) never won an arguement. Ever. Not once in the history of debate has it ever even helped someone win.

 

[Artoomis]

Absolutely. I think we agree but are approaching it from different angle. What I'm saying is that the default Miracle doesn't grant inherent bonuses but with the 5,000 XP expenditure it might, based on the deity's whim. Which meshes with what you've said.

Crikey, it looks like almost everyone is in agreement save one dissenter.

Greg

Crikey?

You been watching too much TV, methinks.