Shouldn't Monsters Recharge at End of Turn?

[Turtlejay]

I agree with Dracosuave *and* Jhaelen. In the case of Interrupts or Free actions, this also gives the monster an entire round of extra time to use those. I'm not sure that will make a difference, ever. I'm also not sure that a round of knowing what power to use will make a difference, and since I don't know how the PC's will *know* whether a power has recharged or not. If they know, what really are they going to do about it?

Jay

 

[KarinsDad]

I think this comes down to how much information a DM is comfortable sharing with the players.

I personally think that even Monster Checks hand out too much information. Monster checks should hand out racial information and some slight information that this race has these tendencies, but instead it hands out the equivalent of class or profession information. How exactly does the PCs know that a given foe is a blademaster with his sword and can use it to push foes around? Well, cause the rules say so.

In the case of rechargeable powers, I do think that this is way too much information to hand out to PCs. In my game, I roll most dice in front of the players, so they often see if I roll a 6 at the beginning of a monster's turn and the players suddenly go "Oh shoot". That doesn't mean that the moster will actually use that power on that turn (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't depending).

I think that players enjoy the game more if they don't know virtually everything about an encounter. Some surprises and mysteries are more fun than none, at least IMO. But I don't see a little red light above the foe's head indicating that the monster has recharged a power as being reasonable information to hand out.

 

[Turtlejay]

In the case of rechargeable powers, I do think that this is way too much information to hand out to PCs. In my game, I roll most dice in front of the players, so they often see if I roll a 6 at the beginning of a monster's turn and the players suddenly go "Oh shoot". That doesn't mean that the moster will actually use that power on that turn (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't depending).

Buried in that excellent post is yet another point I agree with. Just because a power might be used on the round it recharges, doesn't mean it will be used. Powers have situational uses, sometimes the monster will be better served waiting for the party to change position so it can get more of them in an area, or it might wait until it si bloodied or it's enemy is bloodied, or an ally is flanking, or many other reasons.

The initial premise is somewhat flawed, and so the suggestion based upon it is also flawed. It may work in some groups, but none of the groups I have played in announce when a power has recharged, so it would make little discernable difference when the die is rolled.

Jay

 

[Neuroglyph]

Here's the only downside: Bookkeeping.

If you only roll to recharge when you're about to use the power, there's nothing to keep track of. It either works or it doesn't. If you roll at the end of a turn, though, you have to roll for each separate recharge power, and you have to keep track of which powers recharged.

I agree - it's much easier to just roll the recharge right before the monster attmpts to use it - much less bookkeeping and it's fun watching my Players hold their breath as I pick up the dice and tell them that the monster is trying to refresh X power - which they had already had used on them earlier in the encounter... really adds a nice bit of tension.

 

[the Jester]

How would the pcs know whether a monster's powers have recharged anyway?

I see no in-game reason why they would, and not knowing is part of what makes their decision-making process interesting.

 

[babinro]

How would the pcs know whether a monster's powers have recharged anyway?

I see no in-game reason why they would, and not knowing is part of what makes their decision-making process interesting.

Exactly, PC's will ideally plan around the potential of said attacks. The uncertainty adds risk/reward elements to the game.

Do you risk entering a friendly zone with other allies knowing it is also the ideal location for a dragon's breath attack? It could pay off or backfire based on the unknown recharge at the start of the creature's turn.

 

[FireLance]

How would the pcs know whether a monster's powers have recharged anyway?

I see no in-game reason why they would, and not knowing is part of what makes their decision-making process interesting.

A DM who wants to communicate this information to the players should find some plausible way to do so in-game, of course. For example, a fire beetle's throat may glow red when its fire spray is ready for use. After it has used that ability, its throat becomes a dull black until its fire spray recharges.

When a dragon's breath weapon is ready for use, small amounts of elemental energy escape every time it exhales: small puffs of flame come out of a red dragon's mouth, electric sparks dance around a blue dragon's teeth, a poisonous mist trails from a green dragon's jaws, and so on.

For more physical attacks, such as a cave bear's cave bear frenzy or a macetail behemoth's tail sweep, the creature may appear slightly tired, or the body part used to make the attack may move more sluggishly until the ability is recharged.

As for which approach is more fun, I guess it depends on whether you generally prefer to give your players advance warning, or whether you prefer to surprise them. I generally prefer the former, but I can see why some DMs might prefer the latter.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The bookkeeping comment doesn't make sense to me. If a monster has that many rechargeable powers that makes it difficult to track, I don't see how rolling before each round makes a difference in most cases. If he has only one power then obviously there's no downside. I especially don't follow about saying "before the turn in which he plans to use the power." How can he plan to use it if it's not ready?

 

[DracoSuave]

The bookkeeping comment doesn't make sense to me. If a monster has that many rechargeable powers that makes it difficult to track, I don't see how rolling before each round makes a difference in most cases. If he has only one power then obviously there's no downside. I especially don't follow about saying "before the turn in which he plans to use the power." How can he plan to use it if it's not ready?

The focus when it comes to the tension here should be on the players; they are the ones presented with the unknown.

And, as there is only a single -visible- recharge roll, by rolling beforehand, they have the most amount of time of not knowing before they can either brace for impact or breath a sigh of relief.

It's much more tense fighting a dragon if you don't get a round of warning before that blast of doom wrecks havoc on your team.

The thing with D&D4e is that the DM isn't necessarily supposed to be required to be -too- technical with his tactical planning, he's supposed to be doing what makes the fight more fun. Otherwise, the DM is wasting time and energy; his players aren't supposed to -feel- it, but it's the simple fact that the monsters are supposed to be the underdogs in every straight-up combat encounter. That doesn't mean the DM has to play perfect tactics for the win.

 

[Camelot]

I agree with those who say it should remain being rolled at the start of the creatures turn.

Rolling at the end of the turn means letting the players know what the monster will do on its next turn. If the dragon recharges its breath, they know to spread out so it can't hurt them. This decreases the tension, because there is no unknown element.

Rolling at the start of the turn gives the players something to hold their breath for. Better yet, if they don't know whether its powers are recharge or not, they will have to plan for every possibility they've witnessed, because they don't know if it could happen next turn (if it's at-will), in a few turns (if it's rechargeable), or never again (if it's encounter). That's what raises the tension: mystery.

This is the reason DMs use screens. If the players don't know what they monsters roll, then the DM can milk that. He rolls the dice, the players hold their breath. The DM looks up. "The evil paladin raises his sword, directing at Tanya, who only has 2 hp left." The wizard gulps. This could be the end of her character. The DM continues, "He swings! Tanya leaps to the side, but the sword is fast. It slashes right through her robes..." The player is beginning to moan, looking to make sure she has enough for a raise dead ritual, when the DM finishes, "missing her entirely." The player looks up, a smile spreading on her face. "She has escaped his blade!"

Of course, this is only effective maybe twice an encounter, when it really starts to get gritty for the characters. However, if you are rolling behind a screen anyway, then the characters don't know whether you roll at the start or the end of the monster's turn! In this case, you still probably want to roll at the start of the turn, for the aforementioned bookkeeping reasons. Would you rather remember if you used the power before (which should be easy if it's a memorable enough power) or what you rolled for recharge (which is a 1 in 6 random number, not at all memorable)?

However, if you find that end of turn works, all the better for you. Do what's fun in your game.