Shouldn't most Rituals be free?

[fuzzlewump]

I was thinking for my next game I would allow (at 4th level) 2 free rituals per day that cast as full-round actions, to anyone who can cast rituals including people who just have the feat. Possible limitation to only allow rituals with casting times of 10 minutes or less, and no item creation, and possibly none with permanent effects. The rest of the time they cost money and take two-full round actions.

I really don't see a lot of rituals (or any, from my glances) that would be gamebreaking if allowed to be used in combat. Most of the time it would be pretty gimp to use an arcane lock in the the middle of combat, even if you can seal the door you were better off putting a damaging conjuration in the way instead. So why not allow it in case a situation does come up where it's useful?

What are some rituals, especially in the heroic tier, that could be gamebreaking with such a rule?

 

[ppaladin123]

I was thinking for my next game I would allow (at 4th level) 2 free rituals per day that cast as full-round actions, to anyone who can cast rituals including people who just have the feat. Possible limitation to only allow rituals with casting times of 10 minutes or less, and no item creation, and possibly none with permanent effects. The rest of the time they cost money and take two-full round actions.

I really don't see a lot of rituals (or any, from my glances) that would be gamebreaking if allowed to be used in combat. Most of the time it would be pretty gimp to use an arcane lock in the the middle of combat, even if you can seal the door you were better off putting a damaging conjuration in the way instead. So why not allow it in case a situation does come up where it's useful?

What are some rituals, especially in the heroic tier, that could be gamebreaking with such a rule?

Well, this is the level 30 feature for the epic destiny, "Magister." They ended up issuing errata:

"The ritual you perform cannot directly affect an enemy. For example, you could perform Raise Dead and revive an ally who could then rejoin the fight. However, you could not perform Imprisonment, which directly affects an enemy."

There are several powers (e.g. sleep) that can knock an enemy unconscious and thus render them helpless for at least one round. That is all you need to cast Imprisonment and end the encounter.

 

[fuzzlewump]

Interesting, I didn't know about that epic destiny.

Imprisonment takes an hour to cast, which I would exclude from the full-round cast time, and it's level 28. I like how there is basically an illusion spell called "hallucinatory item" that functions like a Silent Image from 3E, albeit a level 5 ritual. I'd like to see that kind of thing being used on the fly, like when running away from something, throwing up a quick illusory wall to confound chasers.

At least at lower levels, I'm having a hard time finding things that are useful no matter what ritual rules you use.

 

[Journeymanmage]

...
Quips aside, no I don't think that there is any mechanical requirement for them, aside from a design decision on the part of the 4e team that magic should never have any practical day to day use except for the 'Lifestyles of the rich and bloodthirsty' crowd.

^That^

(and that's also an issue I have with how the games changed)

 

[LostSoul]

I think the decision to "remove" rituals from Essentials was a smart decision - they don't add anything to the standard, expected gameplay of 4E.

If Die Hard is the "perfect" 4E game - where a bad-ass struggles against adversity only to come back time and again to succeed and save the day - wild cards like rituals are not going to work towards that goal.

In a game like mine, rituals are really important. But my game is a hack, set up to challenge the players.

 

[Tenniel]

If you think making many rituals free will enhance fun at your table (and not just for those with the Ritual Caster feat) then give it a whirl.

Rather than changing the costs for rituals, I let players harvest body parts, blood, fur, feathers, scales etc from creatures that can substitute for the component cost of 1 or more particular rituals. Other components may be found growing or be excavated in exotic locations. Assume there is no readily accessible market for selling on these items. Basically, this is giving the players additional rewards that can only be used to do rituals. The DM can easily control what rituals can used using these resources and how frequently they can be used without paying the component cost.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Do you really think it is wise to allow both the PCs as well as implicitly every NPC with access to ritual casters, the ability to Commune with Nature, Consult Mystic Sages, Hand of Fate and the like with the only restriction being that of time?

Invokers can cast Hand of Fate once per day without using components. It's not exactly the same as unlimited uses per day but I'm playing an Invoker now and so far it hasn't been encounter- or gamebreaking.

Scrying is an easy example. The scrying ritual lasts for....rounds. What am I going to see in a few rounds that makes it worth paying all that money?

I think the onus on the GM to have something noteworthy happen in those few rounds. A while back someone on these boards noted that in a movie when the good guys listen to the tapped phone they hear something relevant, not the bad guys ordering pizza. I think that's an apt comparison and the same thing should happen when using scrying rituals. (Although I could see the duration being extended a little longer so the PCs can learn that noteworthy info.)

Other party members (aside from the caster) can help in this. Each party member that helps supplies some of the ritual's cost, in healing surges or action points.

I really like that idea. My friend and I were brainstorming a houserule to have rituals powered with surges but scrapped it because some classes might be loath to part with a surge if they don't have many to begin with (such as a Wizard).

 

[wedgeski]

Weeeellll, I guess it's time for me to post my traditional response to these threads: "I use them by the book in my game, hand them out by the bucket load, introduce many and varied variations on them, and hand out components as a standard part of treasure parcels. As a result, they're used frequently and with great effect."