Shouldn't we wait until passing judgement?

[Fifth Element]

No one here is even threatening physical violence to the 4E books much less people.

Consider this:

Oh my god. Those dragons look horrible. The person responsible for all those nose horns should have his eyes stabbed out (but he is probably blind anyway, there is no other explanation for this stupid look).

 

[Vigilance]

I don't think I'm being too hasty. I'm not getting it. I don't give a good darn if WotC is going to package in sensual foot massages with every PHB purchase. I'm not buying it. I'm not saying that it may not have improvements over 3.5. But I'm still not buying it.

Reasons why I won't purchase 4.0, based on what I know now.

1. I've spent too much money on 3.5. I still have plenty of material to use. So unless WotC makes it 100% compatible with the previous edition (which will be impossible), they lose on this point.

Um. Ok. I don't get this. I loved all my Playstation games and I spent a lot of money on them. What did that have to do with upgrading to something new? Not much.

2. I won't support the DI. Really, it's too much to spend every month for what we used to get for free. But then I'd hate to be considered "not a real D&D player." So unless WotC decides to allow free downloads of the important stuff to those who spend their money to purchase their books, they lose on this point.

Have they announced a price for this yet?

Also, I definitely feel its more than we used to get "for free".

3. They cancelled Dragon and Dungeon, and for that, the wound is still fresh. (How soon the ENWorlders forget! I, for one, won't let Paizo's death be in vain!)

Sigh. Yes, change is hard. Magazines were cancelled. Next.

4. For all the small guys, Necromancer, Goodman, and the other 3rd party publishers and the freelance authors who are getting jerked around by this scheme, just like they were with the release of 3.0, I won't support 4.0. (And guess what, I'm one of those freelance authors.)

I think 4e is going to be good for 3rd party publishers.

5. Also, I've been unhappy with WotC's content as of late and the direction they've been taking. The Mike Mearls monster previews border on sacrilege in my mind. Seeing this as a preview window into the design philosophy of 4.0, I can see it's one I don't share.

Well, at least this point you make is substantive and not emotional screed. So Mike did what? Three monster re-writes? Months ago?

Something tells me that 4e monsters will be very different from those. Probably better.

These I think are all good reasons to refuse to spend the $240 that will be required to start up a D&D 4.0 campaign ($40 per rulebook, and $120 per annum subscription to play).

You just sold me actually. A new edition of D&D plus a year of the DI for less than my Wii cost? I'm in!

So, no thank you, WotC. If enough of our fellow enthusiasts would stand up against this scheme, we wouldn't keep getting jerked around by frequent rules changes, poor quality editing in books, etc. Vote with your wallets, ladies and gentlemen.

And no, I don't hate D&D.

Retreater

It's a "scheme" now? Huh. I thought it was just a new edition of D&D.

Where's Dr. Evil? Will it melt the polar ice caps?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Some people here think that WOTC's handling of the 4E reveal was a little dishonest.

Why?

Not being snarky, not trying to start a fight. I'm honestly curious. What was dishonest about it?

It's already been established in other threads--with citations, and apologies from those who were making the accusations--that several WotC folks were misquoted. They did not promise no 4E until after 2008, as some people have claimed. They did not promise that all major D&D announcements would happen at Winter Fantasy/the D&D Experience, as some people have claimed. They did not swear they weren't working on 4E, as some people have claimed. The exact quote, IIRC, was that they weren't working on a 4E that would absolutely require miniatures, but the last part of that quote was chopped before the meme spread.

So where's the dishonesty?

 

[Fifth Element]

Here is the thread referred to above:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204662

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Going back to 1999, one of the earliest news bits (2nd day of the site) on Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D News site was the text of a message from Gary Gygax.

Thank you for digging that up and posting it.

I can understand both sides, the people who are excited about 4e and those who are upset.

I would like to think that if I were the head of WotC over the past 8 years, I might have handled things a little differently. Of course I am not that person, I don't know what happens behind closed doors and I only have an outsiders view of the business climate within the division and the parent corporation, maybe with all that information I would have decided things should have happened exactly the same way.

The fact remains that 4e is coming, whether we like it or not.

For those who are excited about it, enjoy the anticipation and I sincerely hope 4e meets most, if not all, of your expectations (and mine as well).

For those upset, you won't be changing directions at WotC no matter how much anger or disappointment you vent. If you want to keep playing 3.5, do so and try and encourage third party developers to continue to support 3.5 by purchasing their products, thereby supporting them.

This game, like a lot of geek culture, sparks very strong emotional responses, but remember it is still only a game. In terms of things worth getting really emotional about, there are much bigger issues in the world than D&D.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Why?

Not being snarky, not trying to start a fight. I'm honestly curious. What was dishonest about it?

It's already been established in other threads--with citations, and apologies from those who were making the accusations--that several WotC folks were misquoted. They did not promise no 4E until after 2008, as some people have claimed. They did not promise that all major D&D announcements would happen at Winter Fantasy/the D&D Experience, as some people have claimed. They did not swear they weren't working on 4E, as some people have claimed. The exact quote, IIRC, was that they weren't working on a 4E that would absolutely require miniatures, but the last part of that quote was chopped before the meme spread.

So where's the dishonesty?

You'll note that I was referring to "some people" not necessarily me. Yeah, at the beginning I had an issue with everything that you posted above and I understand that they couldn't let on because their sales of 3.5 stuff would tank. I get that. Still doesn't mean that it doesnt suck, especially in light that the 3.5 material won't be usable for most part with the 4E. For those of us, like me who were buying 3.5 stuff up until the day of the 4E announcement ( I literally bought my copy of Expedition to Castle Greyhawk the day before) it still kind of stings. and the fact that the rabid pro 4E crowd seems to revel in making light of that is part of what I think degenerates this conversation.

I can still see however to some people it seems like WOTC lied by omission especially after being asked constantly whether or not they were working on 4th Edition but at this point that's neither here or there.

 

[Anti-Sean]

Is it hyperbolic to be fed up with having to purchase and learn 3 new sets of rules in 8 years?

Yes, because you don't *have* to purchase anything.

 

[Glyfair]

Thank you for digging that up and posting it.

No digging necessary. I've actually been nostalgic about the time after 3E was announced and was reading the archives at the time. At some point I'm going to start a thread comparing the two.

Looking through the gazillion threads I've decided what is annoying me isn't the negativity or the over-positivity. It's how they are derailing the discussion.

For example, you can't read a thread on the D&D Insider without going through 90% of the posts being on the Mac vs. Windows argument, even though there are pretty much only 3 points being made over and over.