Showdowdark Class Design: The Paladin! Live with Kelsey Dionne.

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The more I think about it I'd like a "lay on hands" but not provide "healing" but a sort of resurrection for PC's that are worthy. Dunno how I'd represent that mechanically.

That would be uniquely good for Shadowdark. I think a bonus to death saves is the best one could really hope for coming from Kelsey.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would agree with you if we were designing a 3.5 multi page, 9 point type kind of class. Sounds vaguely Paladin-like? Sure! Throw it in!

But Shadowdark classes are very…spare. They attempt to get at the essence of a class.

And while Paladins can be considered a kind of Knight, the mounted combat part is not what distinguishes them from regular knights. It’s not the essence of Paladin-hood.

But if paladins are a type of knight, should they not also have access to mounts?

 

[Bill Zebub]

But if paladins are a type of knight, should they not also have access to mounts?

Sure! Go to the livery and buy one!

 

[Scribe]

But if paladins are a type of knight, should they not also have access to mounts?

Its not a question of access. Any character can get a Mount. Its a question of having that baked into the design of the class, when it already has a number of unique features.

My Knight wanted to have it (its not in the license however as its a Cursed Scroll addition!) but my Knight was also not a Paladin, and didnt make Demons cower, or have a buffed Sword, while I leaned in (tilt?) on the Lance.

 

[aiouh]

Yeah I don’t know. I’ve mulled about it for a day. It’s like part desert rider, part fighter, part cleric. I get that more Horse Riding classes are attractive due to the western reaches hexcrawl but it doesn’t really have that special Paladin sauce for me.

Also if you play with mounts, everyone will want, no, need one. And at that point, what’s the difference between a fighter from a Paladin? Just the Lance? That’s hardly interesting to justify an entire class.

Because right now Paladin just feels like a dripped out Fighter with a free magic scaling sword and a free non spookable horse.

Maybe Alignment, Renown, Carousing, Hirelings (Charisma), Reaction Roll stuff is more interesting design space

Jamming it so clearly mechanically into supporting beefy combat numbers is taking away room from the Fighter-like classes, imo

 

[Scribe]

Ah I had missed that its being given a War Horse. That starts to be a bit much. Also 1d8 HP? I guess it does want 3 stats but I do wonder.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Its not a question of access. Any character can get a Mount. Its a question of having that baked into the design of the class, when it already has a number of unique features.

My Knight wanted to have it (its not in the license however as its a Cursed Scroll addition!) but my Knight was also not a Paladin, and didnt make Demons cower, or have a buffed Sword, while I leaned in (tilt?) on the Lance.

So it's a game balance thing, not a "this makes sense in the context of the setting" thing. Gotcha.

 

[Bill Zebub]

So it's a game balance thing, not a "this makes sense in the context of the setting" thing. Gotcha.

I think you are completely misreading them. Like, 180 degrees. I believe they were talking 100% flavor, 0% balance.

 

[Scribe]

More I think about it, it should be dropped for a penalty against Reaction from Chaotic as @Bill Zebub suggested.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think you are completely misreading them. Like, 180 degrees. I believe they were talking 100% flavor, 0% balance.

No, the objections I'm hearing are on the grounds of game balance.