Shuriken

[Camarath]

Now, it's a completely useless weapon.
(with the possible exception of a monk with Flurry + Rapid Shot, but that's not too effective)

Level 20 rogue BAB +15/+10/+5 with rapid shot and GTWF would have attacks at +11/+11/+11/+6/+6/+1/+1 with the shuriken. Aginst an opponent denied their Dex Bonus they would gain their sneak attack damage on each attack potentially upto +70d6 sneak attack damage for the round. You could also do this with other throwing weapons but you would need quick draw to do so. Wile it is probly not worth a feat to use the shuriken I would not call the shuriken completely useless.

 

[Darklone]

... Wile it is probly not worth a feat to use the shuriken I would not call the shuriken completely useless.

Hmm. Check out how much all that stuff would weigh if you use throwing axes.

With PBS, Rapid Shot, GMW and similar stuff (Flame arrow anyone?) you can easily have a lot of fun with the new shuriken The low base damage does not hurt at all.

 

[Lotus]

I believe slings require a move equivalent action to load in 3.5.

Dang. I take it back then.

 

[Camarath]

Hmm. Check out how much all that stuff would weigh if you use throwing axes.

With PBS, Rapid Shot, GMW and similar stuff (Flame arrow anyone?) you can easily have a lot of fun with the new shuriken The low base damage does not hurt at all.

The differance between the largest throwing weapon's average damage Spear (at 1d8 AD 4.5) and the Shuriken (at 1d2 AD 1.5) is only 3 points on average and 7 points max that is not all that much IMO. And your spear is going to weigh 3lb per shot wile your Shuriken is 1/10th lb per shot (which is even less than arrows). You could use Darts as a rogue with Quick Draw to the same effect as Shurikens. And then you would have Quick Draw and +10ft on the Range Increment so it might be a better choice for the rogue even with the increased weight (1/10th lb vs 1/2lb).

 

[Macbrea]

I wouldn't call them totally useless. If say your playing in a city game and wanted to be unusual:


Human Ranger 12th
Str 18, Dex 20

Favorite Enemies: Human +6, Elf +2, Orc +2
Ranger feats: Two weapon fighting, Improved Two weapon fighting, Greater two weapon fighting
Feats: Point blank shot, Rapid shot, Exotics weapon: shuriken, Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the run


Gets his party member to cast Greater magic weapon on his shurikens = 50 +3 shurikens.


Shuriken: +15/+15/+15/+12/+12/+7/+7 : 1d2+4 damage each +1 damage under 30 feet

Now, in town most of the time he will look like:

Shuriken: +19/+19/+19/+16/+16/+11/+11 : 1d2 + 11 damage at 30 feet

 

[reapersaurus]

umm... why are people including TWF with shurikens?
Did I miss something in 3.5E which makes shurikens melee weapons?
In the SRD I have it states specifically that shuriken CAN'T be used as a melee weapon, even.

I'm pretty sure that whatever character build you make that uses shuriken could be improved if you take a different weapon.
Hence, a USELESS weapon (other than flavor).

Camarath - you brought up a perfect example(s):
Using darts + Quickdraw is literally twice as effective as using shuriken. Better damage and range, and the same weight (per the SRD, 1/2 pound).
And the spear is incredibly better : 3 times more damage (think about that - you'd have to hit 3 times with shurikens to equal one spear, and you have the same # of attacks with both!), plus twice the range increment AND x3 instead of x2.
As if that wasn't clear enough, Quickdraw is useable with all weapons, while EWP: Shuriken is wasted only on the shuriken.

Actually - I take back that the shurikens are useless - I'll clarify their suckiness:
their only effectiveness is in conjunction with some weapon enhancement that makes them worthwhile, since they get enchanted like ammunition does (so some Marrow-eating combo or other might be somewhat effective, but I reserve judgment until someone makes one).

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

p 160 of the PHB specifically states that you can use TWF with thrown weapons and shuriken are considered light weapons for the purposes of TWF penalties. Plus, there's no rule that states you can't use rapid shot with either thrown weapons or on the same round you use TWF.

So, yes, a 20th level fighter can get his 4 attacks, 3 more for TWF, and one more for rapid shot. Or less, but probably more damage from a high level rogue with similar.

Majoru Oakheart

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'd always thought of shuriken as best used by characters that employ poisons. With a single attack, you could force as many as 3 saves vs. black lotus.

The new take on shuriken makes them less attractive to assassins, though it's interesting to note that people are already finding uses for their new attributes.

 

[Macbrea]

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING [GENERAL]
You can fight with a weapon in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon.
Prerequisite: Dex 15.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)
Special: A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
A fighter may select Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.

That is directly from the 3.5 SRD. I am not quite sure which SRD your using but that is the official one from WoC. You will notice it doesn't say it has to be a melee weapon.

Further on you will note the following:

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways:
•If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)
•The Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6.
Table: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties summarizes the interaction of all these factors.

Table: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties
Circumstances Primary Hand Off Hand
Normal penalties –6 –10
Off-hand weapon is light –4 –8
Two-Weapon Fighting feat –4 –4
Off-hand weapon is light and Two-Weapon Fighting feat –2 –2

Double Weapons: You can use a double weapon to make an extra attack with the off-hand end of the weapon as if you were fighting with two weapons. The penalties apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon.
Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon.

So, as to the two thrown weapon wielding character it is perfectly viable. Since, a shuriken weighs 1/2 lb per 5 shurikens. 50 Shurikens weigh a mear 10 lbs. They are enchanted as per ammo, which means that a single casting of Greater magic weapon costs your spell caster in the party 1 spell slot for alot more damage then they could possibly have done with that same spell slot.

 

[Snipehunt]

Gets his party member to cast Greater magic weapon on his shurikens = 50 +3 shurikens.

IIRC, shurikens are not treated as ammunition any more, but as melee weapons, for purpose of enchantment. It would take 8 GMW to enchant 8 shuriken.

But, you would reuse magic ones. Maybe this was the WotC way to say "No more +5 shurikens for you."