Shuriken

[Mike Sullivan]

IIRC, shurikens are not treated as ammunition any more, but as melee weapons, for purpose of enchantment. It would take 8 GMW to enchant 8 shuriken.

YDRC (You Don't Recall Correctly). From the SRD 3.5, in the Equipment section:

Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them (see Masterwork Weapons), and what happens to them after they are thrown.

In 3.0, I believe they were treated as thrown weapons, not ammunition.

Yes, I think that the most viable possible "large numbers of attacks per round" thing in the core rules involves a throw of 9 shuriken per round.

(20th level Fighter with TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Rapid Shot, under the influence of Haste: Normally has +20/+15/+10/+5, two weapon fighting goes to +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3, Rapid Shot takes it to +16/+16/+16/+12/+12/+6/+6/+1, and Haste takes it to +16/+16/+16/+16/+12/+12/+6/+6/+1. Funness!)

 

[reapersaurus]

let me get this straight:
In 3.5E, shurikens are considered both thrown weapons AND ranged weapons? (i.e. they can benefit from TWF AND Rapid Shot?)

If so, I can easily see that as being erratted.

Question: Is there/are there any other weapon that qualifies in this manner?

Further: can a monk use TWF, Flurry of Blows, and Rapid Shot on the shuriken in 3.5? I don't think so, but anything's possible now...

 

[Skaros]

let me get this straight:
In 3.5E, shurikens are considered both thrown weapons AND ranged weapons? (i.e. they can benefit from TWF AND Rapid Shot?)

If so, I can easily see that as being erratted.

Question: Is there/are there any other weapon that qualifies in this manner?

Further: can a monk use TWF, Flurry of Blows, and Rapid Shot on the shuriken in 3.5? I don't think so, but anything's possible now...

It has been verified that the designers see no reason rapid shot shouldn't stack with flurry, if the monk is willing to take the extra -2 penalty.....

Howver, I would have expected some text in either Flurry of Blows or TWF that precludes use of both FoB and TWF together, as in 3.0.

However, scouring the 3.5 SRD, I don't see anything of the kind.

Anyone have better eyes than I?

Skaros

 

[Camarath]

Camarath - you brought up a perfect example(s):
Using darts + Quickdraw is literally twice as effective as using shuriken. Better damage and range, and the same weight (per the SRD, 1/2 pound).
And the spear is incredibly better : 3 times more damage (think about that - you'd have to hit 3 times with shurikens to equal one spear, and you have the same # of attacks with both!), plus twice the range increment AND x3 instead of x2.
As if that wasn't clear enough, Quickdraw is useable with all weapons, while EWP: Shuriken is wasted only on the shuriken.

Actualy the wieght of a Shuriken is 1/5th the wieght of a Dart (i.e. 1/10th lb). You should note that the weight list for the shuriken is for 5 of them so 1/2lb divided by 5 is 1/10th lb. Also weapon dice damage can be the smallest part of a charater's damage. For example a character with str 20 has a +5 to damage so does 6-7 with the shuriken (AD 6.5), 6-9 with the dart (AD 7.5), and 6-13 with the spear (AD 10.5) in this case the no weapon has twice the avarage damage of a shuriken. The spear is Two-handed as well which precludes TWF.

 

[Camarath]

It has been verified that the designers see no reason rapid shot shouldn't stack with flurry, if the monk is willing to take the extra -2 penalty.....

Howver, I would have expected some text in either Flurry of Blows or TWF that precludes use of both FoB and TWF together, as in 3.0.

AFAICS there is no such text unless it is hidden in some completely irrelevant section of the rules. However there has been an Email responce for the "sage", that runs contrary to the published rules, that says that you can not stack Flurry of Blows with other abilities grant additional attack such as TWF and Rapid Attack. I am inclined to ignore this "ruling" unless it comes in a more official and tangible form.

I personally don't see anything wrong with your Monk lv 12/Ranger lv 8 having attacks of +13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3/-2 using Shuriken with Greater TWF, FoB, Rapid Shot, and Speed (or Haste).

 

[Bagpuss]

AFAICS there is no such text unless it is hidden in some completely irrelevant section of the rules.

That wouldn't be a first....

 

[Camarath]

let me get this straight:
In 3.5E, shurikens are considered both thrown weapons AND ranged weapons? (i.e. they can benefit from TWF AND Rapid Shot?)

If so, I can easily see that as being erratted.

Question: Is there/are there any other weapon that qualifies in this manner?

Dagger, Club, Shortspear, Spear, Dart, Javelin, Throwing Axe, Light Hammer, Trident, Tridents, and Net. All thrown weapons are ranged weapons some are also melee weapons.

 

[reapersaurus]

I personally don't see anything wrong with your Monk lv 12/Ranger lv 8 having attacks of +13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3/-2 using Shuriken with Greater TWF, FoB, Rapid Shot, and Speed (or Haste).

You might not.
But if these rules are true, and I (or someone else) built a power-play around the STR damage stacking AND the Weapon Specialization and the cheaper enchantment costs for ammunition (GMW and/or Marrowcrushing) and the CHA damage from Divine Might stacking (and some others), someone would decry it as 'overpowered', and blame Wizards for not thinking things thru properly on 3.5E.

So I'm just jumping to the conclusion right now....
I dunno if it's a problem, since I can't think it thru completely, but it sure seems strange to me that TWF applies to ranged weapons now.
Did I miss this in the 3.5 overview of rules changes? TIA

 

[Camarath]

You might not.
But if these rules are true, and I (or someone else) built a power-play around the STR damage stacking AND the Weapon Specialization and the cheaper enchantment costs for ammunition (GMW and/or Marrowcrushing) and the CHA damage from Divine Might stacking (and some others), someone would decry it as 'overpowered', and blame Wizards for not thinking things thru properly on 3.5E.

So I'm just jumping to the conclusion right now....
I dunno if it's a problem, since I can't think it thru completely, but it sure seems strange to me that TWF applies to ranged weapons now.
Did I miss this in the 3.5 overview of rules changes? TIA

I don't really like to call things overpowered till I see them in play. But you could build some pretty strong characters around the Shuriken but many of them would only become relatively powerful later in levels and by then there are a lot of very powerful options. I do feel that WotC did not think all of the new rules and changes through properly in 3.5.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. Nice, we have a character with 9 attacks per round? Send him into your average dungeon and he will soon have neither shuriken left nor GMWs