Silly economics of DnD

[Wippit Guud]

Ok, this chain vs chain mail thing, with respect to price, can really screw things up.

Assume arbitrary number of smiths. Assume PHB prices. They imply that *provided they can sell their goods* smiths who make chain earn something like at least 50 times hourly wage of ones that make mail. Assume however that the demand for mail is 100 times greater then that for chain and that therefore only 1% of smiths can sell it. What this does is force competition everybody tries to be in this 1% because it is just so lucrative; they undercut each other and price drops bit by bit untill it is no longer incredibly lucrative to pander to this market - that is until the return on investment (in terms of working hours) is same order of magnitude in both cases. Works exactly as you described but only when demand is low because when demand is high loosing business is not a big danger.

So, in summary, the price of chain mail is low when compared to a chain, because so many smiths are trying to fit into so small a market.

OK.

If a PC is trying to craft his own chain mail, why would I base the craft rolls to create it on an economically-reduced price? Shouldn't it be based on the actual price of the chain mail? (which looks like it should be about 50% more than the listed price)

 

[Chimera]

I tend to disagree. Start with the 'real world' model, then make changes based on how (you think) magic would affect the system.

 

[SableWyvern]

Actually, from what I heard long ago on the WotC boards, the earnings of the laborer are listed as to what he has AFTER taking care of the general cost of living for himself and his family through various means.

I could be mistaken, though...

If that's the case, then the information would be next to useless. The whole section is talking about PCs hiring NPCs - DMs and players need to know how much they need to spend, not how much of his wage the employee spends on ale and girls.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

I tend to disagree. Start with the 'real world' model, then make changes based on how (you think) magic would affect the system.

I agree with you; that is the way to approach the problem. In a fantasy milieu it isn't necessary to have "perfect" resolution of the matter, but the economic and monetary systems should be logical within the paramaters of the world that is presented.

Prices and wages have posed a problem for FRPG systems since day one. Gamers being an independent lot we'll never have anything like general accord, but whatever system one likes should be relatively easy to understand and apply where the game doesn't address some question of prices, wages, whatever.

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[jasper]

I have to agree with the col.

Use the book cost for adventurers who are pass through. Basically rip off the tourits.

When they settle down to build keeps start using the usenet article.

Adventurer can throw the economy off if the dm wants to get that detailed. However I too busy getting my villians in order to worry about it.

if you really what see how you can mess up adventurers do what I did. My group in Fort Ord Ca complete the Temple of Elemental Evil. They left the dead, the armour, and weapons. And gems on one throne. My Npc cleric hired townspeople to take a couple of wagons and clean up after the party.
Blew the next group mine when they hear rumors of the temple and visited Hommlet. When all the villagers have armour and two or more weapons, they don't take any thing off of smart mouth adventurers. In fact, they gave the cleric and one adventure the deed to the moathouse.

Of course I never play the adventure where the new owners found out the deed was worthless and the ruler's enforcers wanted to know why they were squatting on the king's fort.

D&D allows you to get as detail as you what. But to do so; you have to throw some of the standard charts out the window.
I know one guy who had every important NPC coat of arms designed and half them were drawn out and painted.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

If a PC is trying to craft his own chain mail, why would I base the craft rolls to create it on an economically-reduced price? Shouldn't it be based on the actual price of the chain mail? (which looks like it should be about 50% more than the listed price)

Better yet, why would it be take longer to make an item out of gold (a soft, malleable, easy to work metal) than from iron (harder, more difficult to work)? That's how the craft rules work.

They need some significant tinkering, in my view.

 

[Ristamar]

If that's the case, then the information would be next to useless. The whole section is talking about PCs hiring NPCs - DMs and players need to know how much they need to spend, not how much of his wage the employee spends on ale and girls.

Well, you have to consider that a lot of employers may provide their employees with lodging and/or meals in addition to a standard wage. Also, by 'various means' I wasn't trying to state that a labororer was paying for various costs, then blowing the rest at the local tavern. It was more of an implication that they'll likely barter goods and services with others quite frequently and handle most needs/problems/repairs themselves rather than simply plopping down hard coin in order to get by from day to day. In all likelihood, they probably try to spend as little of their earnings as humanly possible.

Anyway, I'm didn't really mean to say "this is what the designers intended." I only wanted to point out that there are a myriad of ways to look at the information presented as plausible without having laborers and their families constantly dying from starvation on the streets, unless that's the kind of thing you're aiming for...

 

[Numion]

I tend to disagree. Start with the 'real world' model, then make changes based on how (you think) magic would affect the system.

Just add the effects of technology to medieval economics, and you have 21st century economic model?

 

[Chimera]

Yes, if you supply centuries of change to the system. That's why, as the Col said, we won't have a general accord of prices: Because every world and campaign is different.

IMCC, Human society is just starting to develop. There is very little in the way of 'magic = technology' = changes to the system. There's only *one* 17th level Wizard on the continent, and he's rather too busy staying alive and working his other projects to be involved in things as crass as "mercantilism". There hasn't been this history of Wizards building magic devices to make ordinary life easier, so they just plain don't exist.

Consequently, the pitch that is gathered from oil seeps in the hills is carried nearly 600 miles overland to the sea ports where it's needed is very expensive stuff by the time it gets there. Of course, it's just that difficulty that is driving the production of riverboats and the development of towns on that same river, if only to cut transport costs of that one necessary commodity. (well, and others too, but whatever)

However, in a vastly older world (such as my previous ccampaigns, set 4500-5000 years in the future of the current one), there's no doubt that some enterprising Wizard (or guild) would find a better way around that problem, driving down the price of pitch in the coastal sea ports.

Bottom Line: Your Milage May Vary. See World Owner's Manual for Details.

 

[hellbender]

The system I have been using to figure economics in my games is based on series of articles that appeared in White Dwarf and collected in the Best of White Dwarf #3.
The theory for basic economy is the 'ale standard', which breaks down an economy based on the price of a tankard of ale, which is always a simplistic and fairly accurate yardstick for calculating base economies and monetary scales.


hellbender