Silly Silence spell trick? (Constraining its emanation to only your square)

[IceFractal]

Right - the board would need to be 5'x5' (or, at least, 5'x4'10") to count as a solid barrier to line of effect; the 3'x3' barrier is effectively a 5'x5' section of wall with a hole 16 square feet in size - more than enough to permit line of effect beyond the barrier.

While that might apply to a single board, I think the situation is altered by adding multiple boards that form corners. For instance, I don't think anyone would deny that something completely enclosed in a 1' cube box has total cover, even though no part of the box is even close to a 5' square.


The hat, though, is getting unwieldy. It seems like it might need to be 5' high, like a giant top-hat, although not 5' in diameter. Not ideal for indoors. Either that or we need something like a wearable tent.

 

[Thikket]

Cool. I had to reread the PHB glossary's words on Line of Sight and Line of Effect, but I think I understand everything that Hypersmurf has presented now.

Strictly RAW, it seems that this has bad consequences that I've never considered before, one of which IceFractal already pointed out -- the completely enclosed 1' cube problem. (A silence pebble inside a small enclosed iron box still emanates normally; but if the box is 5'x5', the emanation is constrained to only one square.)

Say I am prone in my square underneath a thin 5'x5' blanket, trying to get Total Cover from the Flying Boogieman who is hovering in the square above my space. There is no line of sight (nor line of effect) between my square and the square above mine -- I have a "solid barrier" (the blanket) above my head. However, there are lines of sight and effect from my squares to the square to the north, south, east, etc., because the sides of the blanket are too thin to count as a "solid barrier", even though I'm cowering underneath the thing. So I can see the Pedestrian Boogieman who is standing to my north (and he can see me...), but I can't see the Flying Boogieman above my head.

Of course, a typical DM would rule I have the Blinded condition, but would he also rule that I have total cover (or concealment) from the Pedestrian Boogieman who is standing to my north?

Back to strict RAW, before a DM says "a blindfold applies the Blinded condition to your character", it seems that my character who wears a blindfold still has his or her normal line of sight.

I hope I'm misinterpreting things again.


Rules texts of Line of Sight and Line of Effect for the crazy people like me who enjoy these random semantics:
[sblock]PHB310
line of effect Line of effect tells you whether an effect (such as an explosion) can reach a creature. Line of effect is just like line of sight, except line of effect ignores restrictions on visual ability. For instance, a fireball's explosion doesn't care if a creature is invisible or hiding in darkness.

line of sight Two creatures can see each other if they have line of sight to each other. To determine line of sight, draw an imaginary line between your space and the target's space. If any such line is clear (not blocked), then you have line of sight to the creature (and it has line of sight to you). The line is clear if it doesn't intersect or even touch squares that block line of sight. If you can't see the target (for instance, if you're blind or the target is invisible), you can't have line of sight to it even if you could draw an unblocked line between your space and the target's.



author's note: check out that circle of the term "see" in the "line of sight" text --

(1) two creatures can see each other IF they have line of sight
(2) IF you can't see the target, [THEN] you cannot have line of sight to it

I take (1) to be a definition of the term "see" in D&D. To rectify this, I am assuming that the only times I cannot "see the target" for the purposes of (2) are when the rules specifically say I cannot: when I am afflicted with a blindness/deafness spell and have the Blinded condition, to use the text's example.
[/sblock]

 

[Hypersmurf]

Strictly RAW, it seems that this has bad consequences that I've never considered before, one of which IceFractal already pointed out -- the completely enclosed 1' cube problem. (A silence pebble inside a small enclosed iron box still emanates normally; but if the box is 5'x5', the emanation is constrained to only one square.)

Once you're completely enclosed, I think you're okay... because there's no hole of at least 1 square foot for the line of effect to pass through in any direction.

If one side of the cube is open, then, I think, you've got a normal emanation.

-Hyp.

 

[Wolfwood2]

You know, the spell you're actually looking for is Zone of Silence. It provides you a personal 5 foot square of personal silence that moves with you, giving perfect stealth (without hindering spellcasting).

I know what you're asking yourself. What obscure splatbook did he pull that one out of?

Turns out it's in the SRD.

Nobody ever uses it because it's a Bard 4 only spell, and anyone who's troubled himself to take ten levels of bard probably has better spells to learn. I've only heard of it because it's on the Beguiler spell list.

 

[Thikket]

I know what you're asking yourself. What obscure splatbook did he pull that one out of?

Turns out it's in the SRD.

Woo! The penultimate PHB spell!

I don't think zone of silence works quite like you mentioned: its effect is a 5' radius emanation centered on you. That's not the same thing as a personal silence 5' square. That's why the spell description talks about "those within", not just "you", for people talking.

Thus, zone of silence has the same tactical problem as silence does for a personal stealth spell -- namely, if you get too close to a creature, they'll suddenly notice the absence of all sound and expect that something emanating a silence effect is nearby. A 5' radius is a lot easier to manage than a 20' radius, though.

Sculpt sound is actually the best spell to emulate what I'm talking about here, I think, and that one is only Brd3 -- and it affects multiple targets, too, and also lasts 1hr/lvl.

 

[TerraDave]

I have a more basic question on this spell, which I am sure has come up before:

when does the will save apply?

 

[Thikket]

I have a more basic question on this spell, which I am sure has come up before:

when does the will save apply?

This is a very common question about silence. In short, the Will save and SR sections of the spell only apply for the "anchoring" of the spell -- if you try to anchor silence to a creature, that creature can fizzle your spell by passing a Will save or successfully using SR. If you anchor silence elsewhere, creatures that are in the area or later enter the area are simply silenced (no save, no SR).

***

From the spell description:
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)


[This tells us that sometimes a Will save applies (and we must "see text"); other times, no Will save applies (when the spell is cast on an object).]

The relevant bits of the text for the purposes of a saving throw are:


(1) The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object.
(2) The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any.
(3) Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not.

From (1) and (3), we see that we can cast silence on a point in space or an unattended object, and there is no saving throw involved. That point in space or object will now be the origin point for the silence emanation. Characters who enter the field of silence do not receive a saving throw; they are simply silenced (no save, no SR).

From (2), we see from my bold emphasis that if we cast silence on a creature, it anchors to that creature, and a creature can attempt a Will save or apply SR to negate this effect. So in particular, if I cast silence on a creature and it passes a Will save, my spell does nothing.


(This is why a plain silence anchored on yourself is bad for stealth: you may end up walking by someone within 20', and they will be automatically silenced, and definitely be tipped off to your presence.)

 

[robberbaron]

Hmm, interesting.

My main quibble would be to consider a cloak a 'solid barrier'.

If a cloak is a 'solid barrier' wouldn't we then get fireballs that burst around someone wearing a cloak, rather than scorching them?