Simple Rogue Variant

[Cheiromancer]

Would it be balanced to allow a rogue sacrifice a dice of sneak attack ability in order to get all subsequent special abilities (including trap sense, uncanny dodge and high level special abilities, but not additional sneak attack dice ) a level early? The rogue could take this option multiple times.

A rogue that used the ability multiple times could get evasion at level 1, uncanny dodge at level 3, improved uncanny dodge at level 5, and the first special ability at level 7, but would not have any sneak attack dice at all.

Does anyone have the epic-level progression of rogue special abilities handy?

 

[whydirt]

I don't see a problem with it, since I think there's less chance of brokenness with defensive abilities than offensive ones. I wouldn't allow the epic-level special abilities until epic level, though. So chances are this variant rogue would might have to take some bonus feats with his selections at high level, which is fine by me.

 

[maggot]

The only problem I see is letting the rogue get evasion at first level, along with the 8+INT skill points per level, you are really encouraging dipping in for one level.

 

[Bront]

A good suggested variant I've heard is to drop sneak attack for bonus feats.

 

[Shellman]

Per the Rogue Special Abilities section: a Rogue may take a feat in place of a special ability.

So, IMO if a DM were to allow your variant, I would stick to the rule that you may select a special ability every third level in place of a feat. So you could select the first special ability at 3rd level and that would keep people from dipping into the class for 1 level.

 

[yennico]

Does anyone have the epic-level progression of rogue special abilities handy?

Here is the epic progression.

I agree with maggot. No evasion at level one. And I agree with bront.

 

[Cheiromancer]

maggot's observation also applies to the varian Bront cites. It makes a 1-level dip in rogue too attractive.

If I used this rule, I wouldn't allow the the benefit to kick in for a level.

 

[yennico]

If I used this rule, I wouldn't allow the the benefit to kick in for a level.

I would not change the +1d6 on level one. If you change the 1d6 into a feat, every fighter starts as level 1 rogue (better skills and skill points, reflex save, plus a feat) and then advances as fighters.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I would not change the +1d6 on level one. If you change the 1d6 into a feat, every fighter starts as level 1 rogue (better skills and skill points, reflex save, plus a feat) and then advances as fighters.

Do you think this would be addressed by delaying the benefit of the trade-in for a level? That is, waiting until Rogue2 before the bonus feat would kick in?

That being said, I think that any fighter who would start off as a variant rogue would probably choose rogue anyway; +1d6 sneak attack is as good as any other feat that the fighter is likely to be eligible for. Rogues are surprisingly good alternatives to fighters when making NPCs like guards or city watch officials.

 

[Felnar]

I would not change the +1d6 on level one. If you change the 1d6 into a feat, every fighter starts as level 1 rogue (better skills and skill points, reflex save, plus a feat) and then advances as fighters.

rogue level 1 has a BAB of +0, does the fighter really want to lose +1 BAB?

- Felnar